Hello volpri, That is correct. Swing trading, you be in drawdown forever seeking new trading methods to get out of drawdown. Easier to scalp and be done with it.
To each his own. There is really no right or wrong way as long as you can make it work or are comfortably making money. We digressed. The intend of @Laissez Faire was to educate us on paying attention to R:R. No?
In my view, simulator testing should be forward testing of what you learned in back-testing/back-checking. I don't see any reason why you can't manually check entire market days and log your signals/observations? Back-checking/back-testing days manually is much more efficient use of time than sitting 6 hours in front of the screen each day. In 6 hours, you may be able to scroll through 10 market days. That's 50+ in a week. It's been a while since I did this, but I picked it up from NoDoji back in the day as a method for back-testing price action bar-by-bar where you start at the market open and scroll to the right one bar at a time. Not saying you should or need to do this. Just didn't agree with what you said on the subject. Deaddog is lying on his couch making money while you're the one working for your money. LOL. You got it the other way around... Pretty much, yes. Now, @SimpleMeLike wants to scalp. On topic, then. What's his avg. stop? Avg. winner? Knowing that, it would be interesting to check what win % is required to get ahead after 100 trades.
In theory, yes, you could have two opposite strategies (scalping versus longer holds) which was the perfect inverse of each other with the exact same expectancy. I didn't necessarily intend this to be about which was better, although I have my preferences. It's more about realizing the requirements of each particular strategy. That said, if you're a swinger, one could argue that your risk is fixed while your profit potential is open ended. I've had 20R trades on multiple occasions. Here, the scalper would simply take profit on a fixed target. Typically, of course. I also suspect that in practice it will be harder for a scalper to take a large loss, so it could be a ticking time bomb where you'll do great for months, but one day take the mother of all losses.
Hello Laissez Faire, Get it how you live buddy. You got your hustle, so go get the money. Stop worrying about how other traders making money, and go get yourself rich. If swing trading works for you, run with it. Why do you care so much how other traders making money?
I have really enjoyed reading this discussion between LF, Volpri and Ironchef. I agree that Volpri hasn't shared enough of his results, just process and theory, which is solid of course, but the execution is critical. At the same time, with LF, we don't know how many times there are repeated stop-outs because it takes a while for the market to sometimes get going, and even then, there is no guarantee that it hits the targets, even if they are a healthy 4R or 5R away. And this also only works on a day where the market gives you 50+ points so that you can cover any stop-outs. Plus, you have to be around to take those trades, and be willing to take them after repeated failures. Today is a really good example. We see how many times the market tried to get going but failed. The first 3 green arrows were all good attempts. The only way to play it for the long game is either to set a large stop, depending on where you got in of course, and not let the hours of going nowhere demoralize you. The rejections at PDL and the 5850 level sure were solid trades for shorts, and something a short term trader could take advantage of, but holding for the big win by going long means you're sitting on your hands. Its only that 4th green arrow that finally made the trade. For completeness, I add in the 3rd red arrow that if taken as a short, would have failed. So clearly, today is a day where both types of traders could do well. Because the range from low to high is over 50 points, multiple stop-outs on longs can easily be covered, and the guy trying to make just 5 or 10 points from multiple trades could have easily done this as well. There are many days where the swing traders just doesn't get a chance though to either hit his target, or even make back losses. And similarly, there are many days where the scalper leaves too much profit on the table after making 5 points and seeing it go up 50 more. What we don't have is Volpri showing his profits, but we also don't have LF showing every trade, to see how often he can bang out the 5R or 10R trade, and what happens in between these trades that are likely less than 20% of every trade. I of course understand that a scratch at BE doesn't hurt the account, but its still another failed trade when it comes to collecting stats, whereas the scalper could have closed out for +5 points and called it a win. None of this is actually a criticism of anyone though. I'm just saying that after trying to make this work for far too long myself, I understand the drawbacks of every method, and its only when the trader can overcome the deficiency of whatever system that he uses can he be profitable. The deficiencies of what LF and Volpri are doing are both very real, but both can be overcome, and likely, both LF and Volpri are able to do this. But there isn't enough info shared by either for anyone here to determine this, but both approaches are valid, and its likely that whoever is reading this will have to determine which is right for their psychological make-up.
I should also add that the best part of this thread is that we don't have V man polluting it with the bullshit of the guaranteed V recovery, which it did today, but lets not forget we haven't had a new high for over a month and if anyone looks at the hourly chart, the down trend is obvious!!
Why would you be in drawdown? Let me ask and answer a couple of questions. How does a trader get into huge drawdown? By not cutting losses quickly. Why wouldn't a trader cut his losses quickly? Because he is afraid of a number of things. Like being wrong, missing the move up, the pain of having a loss or whatever fear you can come up with. Who is responsibile for huge drawdowns. The trader!!!
Good Evening deaddog, Please see me answers to your question in red I can not answer your questions because I do not swing trade, its not my thing. I have no issues with anyone that swing trades or whatever kind of trading. Not my business. I do my own thing. I just make money, I do not care how I do it. I gamble trade, and do whatever I want to do when I trade. I do not care about that fancy talk.