Well, Mr Bright, nice to hear from you - finally. And yet, when I do, you do not make one single attempt to address any of the allegations of talking BS I made. An outright admission of guilt if I've ever seen one. Why in the world would I want to call you Don? I have made it quite clear that I do not wish to expose my identity to you. What useful purpose would speaking on the phone with you serve? Let me make it quite clear. I do not care very much for you Don Bright. I do not consider you to be representative of your firm as a whole. The firm itself consists of many wonderful traders and operating under a solid financial structure, to the mutual benefit of all. As such, I still intend to join the firm. If people want to interpret this as hypocracy on my part, that is their prerogative. Sure Don, you have many supporters in the trading business. You are, afterall, far more vocal than any other trading firm representative. And deep down you're probably a really nice guy too, but your brash arrogance and the web of crap you spin seems to have finally caught up and bit you in the ass. Sir, I assure you, I am most certainly not the first to feel the way I do. The first to voice my displeasure on such a public forum, perhaps. There were at least four other attendees at the "school" that pretty much the same way I do. I have also received many PMs here on ET (whose identity I will not divulge, as per their request), thanking me for airing a sentiment they themselves share. A "frank discussion and error your ways" you say? Mr Bright, please, I have been nothing but frank and forthright. Show you the error of your ways? Well, I don't see how we could possibly agree on the "right" thing to do. I am only interested in not being ripped off, you, on the other hand, are interesting in getting new traders for your firm, (and are willing to say almost anything, it seems, in pursuit of that goal). Why do you find it necessary to utterly dismiss retail trading as a poorer execution system than what you possess? Why do you make the implicit statements that Worldco is in financial trouble? Are you not able to argue for your firm on its merits alone? Why do you speak in complete untruths about the nature of Nasdaq trading? I have a friend in the firm (who shall remain nameless of course) who showed me a memo in which office managers are encouraged to tell the trader that it is "extremely difficult" to get out of a moving Nasdaq stock. Excuse me? What is so difficult about it? Remember, we are in 2002, not March 2000. Do you discourage it so much because your firm has to eat the ECN fees perhaps? I have no idea why you are so against it. Certainly all the reasons you give for it being so bad are just complete bullshit. Let me add one more thing. Overall I found you, your brother and Earl to be extremely arrogant, sometimes bordering on obnoxious. You, yourself, are far from the statesman you come across as in these boards. You guys are the last people who should be running a "school". Questions are dismissed with the briefest of answers, as if we are somehow getting in your way. Let me give some examples. Don was discussing "enveloping orders" and how one of his traders does "hundreds" of these orders every day, adjusting his bid and ask prices as the price of the stock changes. A student asked him if there was automated software for doing this - an innoncent enough question - and Don exploded, "Well why don't you write it? Bill Gates made a billion dollars with software. If you want it, then why don't you do it. We can't do everything for you, we expect you to do some work." Geez, I felt like saying something but bit my lip. Why did such an innocent question warrant such an outburst? There was some guy there talking about First Alert, and Earl was there too. A student asked if the software guy could put up a chart and show how the S&Ps acted when they hit the "pivot points" (which were discussed earlier). Earl interjects, "what? what do you want? Here they are (pointing to where the pivot points are pinned on one of the walls), you can look at em here." The student points out again that he wanted to see them on a chart. Earl, "hey? they're up here on the wall. come on now, you don't wanna look at charts. you only wanna look at charts cos you wanna delay making a decision. thats true, thats why you look at charts." Say what? Rude, arrogant and mysteriously unresponsive to student questions. All three of em, Don, Bob and Earl. They had one of their traders, a relatively new kid from Vancouver who'd been with the firm for a month (so why exactly are we listening to him??) get up and address the class. Although I didn't think he would have much of value to add, he surprised me. His civil, respectful tone was a welcome breath of fresh air and his discussion of his strategy in the brief half hour he spoke was a more thorough treatment of strategy than the Bright's gave the during the whole course! (apart from Opening Orders, which are pushed as the magic bullet to riches, ad nauseum.) A lot of the people are very new to trading, which I gathered from the very simplistic questions many asked (what's a Bid/Ask?) and from my conversations with them during breakfast and dinner. As such, a lot of time is spent discussing mind numbingly simple things like online brokers (ETrade, Ameritrade, you know, the "we sell order flow" types), the difference between investing and trading (phew, lucky I attended, now I know the difference..), oh, and ever present is the theme "how Bright is the better than everything else". So Don, rather than waste half the classes money AND time. Why not make up a simple questionaire that lets you know at what level a trader's knowledge is at? That way you can tailor a "school" for the greenhorns and suck them in with your BS (hell, they won't know the difference) one for people who actually know something about trading, and for which you'd better provide some useful discussion. But, since the Bright Way is the Right Way, I doubt you'll even consider that for one moment.
Thanks for the nice words.....I hope to see you in Anaheim. BTW, we had 40 people in school, and I got over 20 "thank you's" ....and about 100 emails asking additional questions...doesn't that make one feel better...to get something across to new people...I know you guys are doing the same thing!! But there are always those who don't want to "hear" anything different than what they think they know....oh well, more money for our traders that way..... Don
No Don, I didn't "misinterpret" you BS artist. You know damn well what you said. I ask you again, WHAT NAZ STOCK HAD A 20 POINT RANGE IN THE PAST YEAR? CAN YOU NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION?? Do Market Makers have 30 seconds to decide whether to take your order or not??
You asked "why such outbursts" and other things above (after your "slamming post" to begin with. And yet, you chose to slam first...then you actually offered some things that may be of value. We are "tailoring" different classes in the near future, including a full on "boot camp" (several weeks of hands on training), we do "preliminary" seminars for those new to trading, and we offer workshops in most of our offices for newer people as well. Lidodido I would respond better to your suggestions if they weren't so mean spirited....and you have to admit that I offer a lot of my time to answer questions of everyone...and the emails continue for weeks after the program is over. You are in a very small minority, and I cannot do anything to help that. It sounds as if you're upset about charts, nasdaq, and some of the other points we try to drive home to new people....and I cannot help but ruffle a few feathers when I make those points. The rest of your monologue I'll choose to ignore, read whatever you like into it. I have made very few "enemies" in the past 52 years, and my conscience is crystal clear...we offer reality, and many do not like it...and there is nothing I can do about it. I'm sincerely sorry if you felt that we were somewhat hurried or abrupt with anyone....we try to get a lot covered in a very short period of time...and we do our very best to help the biggest number of people during school. And remember, anyone can return for all or part of the class absolutely free of charge...and many (many) take us up on that. Some come several times to pick up different things...and we have different speakers all the time. I am sincerely sorry that you did not have a pleasant experience, and welcome you to come back with any specifics you would like help with....or email me with any more suggestions. Don
please, no one jump all over me, shortboy never trades OTC's, and from what I've picked up from him, the reasons bear similarity to what Don Bright says. I don't know Jack about Don, but if he keeps clear of OTC's, like shortboy, he's in good company. lido, Don's been fair on this board. You'll be better received asking your questions succintly and by number (ask only 3-4). I'm sure Don will try to respond. just my 2 cents, which probably isn't worth 1 cent. Vinny
Stu, My last post on this issue. lib has a hidden agenda...watch (read) how he responds to every post. According to lib...if someone found value...they were wrong. If someone disagrees with his..."I still want to trade at Bright"...they must believe him/her eventhough he continues...even as I write this...to belittle someone or an organization I truly believe he has and never had any intentions of trading at. Look at it this way...If I sold you something and you later tell the world it sucks and you felt how I do business is wrong, you call me a liar, huckster, stupid, my other customers are bums and clueless... then to say..."I'll still trade at your firm". I don't think lib would have gotten any backlash had he/she not said that. Therefore...lib statements were ok until he imply "I still want to trade at Bright if provided the opportunity." (not the exact quote...but close). Thus, he/she wants us to believe that doing business via trading at Bright via commissions and fees to someone that he/she considers a liar, huckster with clueless customers that are also bums... the same clueless customers (traders) and bums (traders) that he could be trading along side with in the same office....hmmmm...what's wrong with this picture. Lib also saids..."Let me add one more thing. Overall I found you, your brother and Earl to be extremely arrogant, sometimes bordering on obnoxious. You, yourself, are far from the statesman you come across as in these boards. You guys are the last people who should be running a "school". (lib's words...not mine). Stu...what's your best guess. Do you think lib really wants to trade at Bright? Also...I did question his specific points...just not the ones you want me too. Stu...I'm not trying to be sarcastic to you. Lib's other specific points (the truth) are not in question with me...reason why I don't address them. Further, his method of delivery of such truth won't get him on the debate team especially when I know for a fact there are others that were in that same class that found the class to be very helpful. In addition...have you read all the negativity on Bright or any other firm in other threads? It's old news to me...nothing new to address. Nothing to enlighten anyone about. However...lib is the first guy I've heard that can call someone a liar, stupid, his customers are clueless (hello...wasn't lib a customer)... and bums but I still want to trade at his firm giving him more of my money via commissions or fees. It's this issue I prefer to address. Then...when he put down those that found some value out of that class...that tells it all and I can't ignore it. Back to the markets...nice surge going on and this issue about lib is closed for me. I've never met lib...nor do I want to...but he/she has some serious issues and I can guess it has nothing to do with Don Bright. Stu...I'm sure you and I have better things to do now...like making a profit today. NihabaAshi
Originally posted by NihabaAshi Look at it this way...If I sold you something and you later tell the world it sucks and you felt how I do business is wrong, you call me a liar, huckster, stupid, my other customers are bums and clueless... then to say..."I'll still trade at your firm". I don't think lib would have gotten any backlash had he/she not said that. First of all it's not "lib" - there is no "b" in "lidodido". Obviously you are incapable of comprehending why I still want to trade there. Maybe you are mentally retarded, I don't know. It's quite simple: Don Bright is NOT NOT NOT NOT the sum of all that is Bright Trading. Understand that for starters. Second. I never once tried to imply that they engage in deceitful business practises, ie illegal or misrepresentative. Got that? Third. I like the structure the firm is set up as. It is financially strong, do you understand?? With prop firms there is no SIPC, so I want to make sure my money is looked after! Okay? I think they do a decent job of monitoring traders risk levels and they have no problem closing out a trader's position. This is very important with professional leverage. Okay?? At the office I DO NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH DON, or anybody I don't want to? OKAY????? Freakin hell, how hard is that to understand!! I am a TRADER, I am in this for MYSELF! God you are so stupid if you do not understand this. WHY THE FUCK SHOULD IT MATTER THAT I DON'T LIKE DON????? Thus, I would rather give my commissions and fees to someone that I don't consider a liar, huckster with clueless customers that are also bums (lib's words...not mine). Many of the seminar participants were pretty clueless. So what. They aren't all gonna be trading in Vegas are they?? NOo. In fact, there are MANY exellent traders in Vegas. I happen to know a couple of them. However...lib is the first guy I've heard that can call someone a liar, stupid, his customers are clueless (hello...wasn't lib a customer)... and bums but I still want to trade at his firm giving him more of my money via commissions or fees. There's a first time for everything isn't there? I want access to professional leverage OK? I also like the Bright Office, okay? (And i mentioned above other things i DO like) IT's not like I am going to be sitting next to Don or anything is it?? It is a very big office. If I want to trade, I am gonna have to pay commission to SOMEONE aren't I??? I am simply looking after MY best interests. if you don't understand that, then you are truyl stupid. Then...when he put down those that found some value out of that class...that tells it all and I can't ignore it. Okay, that was my OPINION. And in my opinion, the more you know about trading ALREADY, the LESS value you are gonna find in it! If you pay $1000 for a trading SCHOOL, and then half the time is spent on tyring to get you to join the firm, is that good VALUE??
Since we will be working together, and I have endured much more than you have offered so far in the past, I hope that we can work together well. I think it would be nice and up front for you to simply come up to me and say "hey, I'm the one who was trashing you on ET"....and I will probably say..."no problem"....and leave it at that. After spending so many years in a trading pit, this is all so minor to me....people get upset, they get over it...life goes on!! Heck, I'll buy you lunch and discuss how we can make the class better for everyone..... "No hard Feelings??" Don