If what is written is true, then what you are hearing from Bright is the stress of competitive pressures that are being put upon the industry. Most firms are not doing well and are desperately looking for traders who have the ability to stay, failing that just get them in the door and hope they can cover the fixed cost. A penny a share is just too high a cost to trade in a one penny spread environment. The old lets capture the spread through momentum trade is over with decimalization. In the end those firms that have the lowest cost for their traders win, as with any maturing industry, cost becomes the key to survive.
lidodido. I was at the class last week as well. I live in Vegas, so it was easy enough for me to go. Let me make a few points: -I have been trading fulltime for 7 years now, I have made alot of money in both the NASDAQ and NYSE markets trading many different styles. There are so many ways to make money, Bright prefers listed....after going to the course it makes sense why. There are many advantages of trading listed (MOO, MOC, etc) It won't stop me from trading NASDAQ..but it did give me some new insights on NYSE. -Before I went to the seminar I had already made thousands of $'s simply by reading Don's OpenOrder thread and then using it. so the seminar was free. -I went into this with the understanding that ofcourse there would be a sales-pitch for Bright trading. I would do the same thing if it were my business. -I trade with IB. 10,000 shares at IB is $52.50, while 10,000 shares at Bright is 1/2 of that (they have a max comm rate) -I certainly don't know everything about trading...but I went because I felt that I could pick a few tid-bits here and there that would be worth more than the $1000...and I feel that I did. -If anything most of what Earl covered was good info for new traders.....and for experienced traders a good refresh. -their hardware is old and outdated....sure..but it works. I have a wonderful trading setup/desks/computer(s) with 19in. monitors in my office: http://www.daytradingstocks.com/tradestations.html (middle of the page "Christopher Steele's Trading Room") Would I trade on the equipment in Bright's office? No way....BUT.....the important part of trading is the trader. If it works, I can understand why they haven't upgraded it. -Software: I have never used REDI+, so can't comment. I have FirstAlert just as the Bright guys do/can. They don't have any advantages on me. Overall, I feel that I got my money's worth. It confirmed my setup for the OO's, I refreshed some thought processes, I was able to gets Bob's insights on the market, I picked up some misc points about trading. At this point in my trading career I do not have a compelling reason to trade with Bright...but..things could change, and it would be a very good option. Also, IMO Bright's setup is very good for an undercapitalized/inexperienced trader...it would give them big leaps ahead of people that have to put the pieces together by themselves. cas (Chris Steele)
Chris Steele, Your brought up something I mention a few times in my earlier posts on this particular thread. Some individuals didn't like the class and some individuals did like the class. Most knew what it was all about before arriving and a few choose to not read the outline prior to the class...lib chose not to read the outline and admitted to such. In fact...I know someone that knew what the class was going to be about and choose not to cough up $1,000. Thus, they didn't go. A few in support of lib think the issue is about the truth...it is not... to me the issue was about him/her saying they want to trade at Bright while harboring such a negative attitude towards Bright. All successful traders know more than 1/2 the battle is psychological. Thus, he doesn't have a chance of succeeding at Bright with his/her attitude. He/her is better off trading at another firm that he/her feels has a better product or better business model. At least...to me...that is the issue. His argument is based on as if Bright is the only game in town. I based this on his FLAWED argument with the Ford vehicle and CEO analogy he made... aren't there other vehicles out there just as good as Ford or better with a good CEO? Surely there must be. More importantly...anybody that felt that the class by Bright was worth it or got something of value out of it...according to lib's quote..."They were probably clueless about trading from the start." Proves my belief his/her agenda had nothing to do with the truth....has nothing to do with wanting freedom to express the truth... it has everything to do with his/her one sided view and that those that sat in the same room as him/her are either clueless and bums. Therefore his attempt to say others share the same view is especially one sided when he dismisses the views of those that were there and don't share his view. That's like losing $1000 on the stochastics indicator and saying its worthless while another person makes $1000 on the stochastics indicator and saids its worth using it. Thus, for one trader to dismis the truth of another trader...is ridiculous. More importantly, to come to a public forum and do such...proves there's a hidden motive...a very negative motive. Thus, I'll repeat my message to lidodido... "Therefore, I'm not doubting your bad experience (your truth) nor am I doubting the good experience of others (their truth).... I'm doubting your motive of this thread...that's my attack of you." NihabaAshi
I went to the Bright Trading Seminar a few years ago, Sept, 1999 to be exact. I was retail trading at the time and I would have never joined a prop firm unless I had gone to the seminar he held. Information on Prop trading was not readily disseminated back then. Don and I may differ in some views on things, one thing is for sure, I have to thank Don for enlightening me about professional trading.
10 pages, mostly supportive, I really appreciate that...thanks to all of you. If Mr. "libidido" or whatever, would like to have a frank discussion about his trading, and would like to show me the error of myways, please feel free to address me directly on the phone. Yours would be the very first time a person (with an open mind, reality based) to ever have problems with what we do...we teach traders about trading...and if you think that the collective information shared is "below" you...than you must be in that 1 tenth of 1 percent of non professional traders who make a million a year.....and I salute you!! As for the rest of the "jive"....lol....sorry, but thanks again to all the supporters without agendas. Again, thanks for the support....see you all in Anaheim.... (Gee 1 out several hundred a year, I guess I shoulda charged him more than the others....) Peace to all... Don
It has to be said --> Isn't this what YOU are doing? (Disclaimer: I have no opinion about this thread or anything in it, I have never coughed up money for ANYONE's seminar, just think this Nihabi guy is kind of a weirdo).
TraderJimR, I'm not dismissing his truth... I'm exposing his hidden agenda...please don't mixed the two together. Not weird...just disagreeing with what lib said is his/her purpose for the thread. (Disclaimer: I have never coughed up money to any seminar that does not involved real trading during market hours. I do have an opinion just as valuable as your opinion about my posts in this thread.) NihabaAshi
....so to be clear, you are saying lib has a hidden agenda because, although he found the teaching side wasn't worth the cake, he still would nevertheless use the place to trade in, so therefore he has an ulterior motive for the thread? You may be right for all I know - but how do you conclude that exposes a hidden agenda ? By the sound of things he has a pretty well balanced approach if he can recognise what he finds to be shortfalls in the firm but can capitalise on the points he finds useful. Personally I find his reasoning understandable and also pleased that he took the trouble to relate his experience. Why not question the specific points he raised instead of the old conspiracy theory technique?
Don,what stocks on Nasdaq move 20 points in a day.And even if there are some that do,what's wrong with that?Instead of trading 2000 shares of a $20 stock,you trade 200 shares of a $200 stock.And MM's have 30 seconds to fill,partial,or reject your order IF you Selectnet preference them.I'm not sure though what the time period will be once Supermontage rolls out when you send a directed order to a MM.But there is no need to use Selectnet or send directed orders nowadays.Supersoes fills your orders against MM's displayed and reserve size instantly.ECN's are instantaneous and most will trade with all MM's and ECN's.So why use Selectnet?Answer:you don't.With Supermontage,you'll be able to trade with all MM's and ECN's displayed and reserve orders instantaneously or you could use ARCA or INCA/ISLD, which are the preferred ways for a trader, to get instant Nasdaq executions.As far as getting price improvement on the NYSE and being able to buy or sell in between the spread,that's only because the quotes are usually inaccurate,whereas Nasdaq's quotes are always accurate,and what you see is what you get and then some.I traded NYSE sometime ago and didn't like it at all.Fills were slow many times,quotes weren't always accurate,spreads were wide,and most of the stocks were slow moving.On Nasdaq,you can also see what MM's are bidding or offering and try and make a logical decision on what to do next.All you get on the NYSE is a bid,an offer and a size and that's it. I like the fast moving Nasdaq where you know you can get a fast fill on a stock that's ready to move.Thanks to Supersoes(and soon Supermontage)and ECN's.Maybe Nasdaq wasn't the perfect market 5 years ago,but it's come a LONG way.Remember the above next time you are teaching a class.
Good discussion, and thanks for the question. We are not "anti Nasdaq" as many think, but we are "pro" helping traders make money...and we do a great job of (despite the 1 in 100 who we (or anyone else) cannot get through to). We like doing the Opening only orders, we like trading "with" the Specialist, and we like doing MOC orders and other "high probability" plays...especially for the first $100K or so with new people. We simply have not seen consistent Nasdaq profits with any of our people over the last 10 years....some are doing ok now, but they still trade some listed. The "proof is in the pudding"...and if you're makine big money trading nasdaq, then by all means go ahead...we have nothing against profits....and if anyone ever wants to help change our minds, simply show us tax returns ... I really mean that....so many have lost so much chasing Naz stocks in the past, and yet we have continued to grow with profitable listed traders..... We lowered prices on nasdaq to help with our Naz traders, and Redi has added features to help with some of the ECn AND and MM trading....we simply want profitable traders....simple as that. Some people mis interpret what I say about the Naz, and I'm sorry for that....but remember, we have been in this business a long time, and I know many MM's, and all of what we have tried to show people about the downside has proven to be true (Check Knight Trimark for example, and their "practices"). I know the Specialists may appear to be "after you" or doing things "wrong' (it's usually just against ME), but we understand the game a lot better than most...and we know when we are getting screwed vs. simply complaining about not making money. Please, everyone, trade whatever you like as long as you're making good money....if not, consider a change...that's all.... Good Trading... Don