Kymar, you are quite correct. Mr Bright has mercilessly attacked all other trading styles. He has also been known to make the statement, "you can't make money trading futures." How are we to take this comment? Surely anybody that's ever traded understands that if it's possible to lose money, then it is also possible to make money. Should I call Don a liar when he makes that kind of statement? That might be too harsh. But his presentation was full of such comments - not all outright lies, but certainly far from the "truth". You are also correct that my thread is quite damning. Yet, I tell you truly the criticisms I made are based entirely on what was SAID. I have not lied about one thing Don said. Members of ET are very quick to put down people like Waxie (and rightly so) and other snake oil sellers. I am NOT classing Don in with those people, but he ABSOLUTELY DOES twist the truth to make his firm sound like the land of milk and honey. As a fellow trader, I simply wish to make this known to other traders so that they do not needlessly waste their money. If people want to make personal attacks on me, I am a grown man, I can take it. But if they're going to accuse me of lying, then let them prove I am lying. As I have said, there were many more things said that are total distortions of the truth, but I think I've said enough.
I took the Bright course twice - the first time in Chicago in late '99, the other late '01. FWIW, I agree with _SOME_ of what lidodido is saying. HOWEVER, I strongly disagree with the CONCLUSION he has drawn. When I go to learn from a trader of greater mastery than myself, I am not so much looking for EXACT answers to my question, or even to hang on his/her every word, rather, I am trying to see what he sees and why he sees it that way - I am more intent on the message than the "facts." For example, when I went to the course, part of it was talking about what was acceptable behavior at a professional trading office and what was not. I thought it was complete common sense. However, I understood that the "training course" was also Bright's last "stand" to make sure that it was weeding out the people that did not have the proper mental attributes to be handed $1M of buying power and the capacity to blow themselves to bits in a day, and then, like Mark Barton, come back and take it out on his peers. So I listened and I am glad I listened, because I don't have the greatest etiquette in the world and I was glad to know what was proper and what was not. Does it help my trading per se? Hard to say... Now, let's talk about the "Food Chain." Well, I can plainly tell you that understanding this has not helped me read the tape so much (though it has some) but it has given me other insights that have helped my trading. Again, perhaps not so plainly, how much thought have you given to this? If something doesn't come to you right away, it is automatically worthless? I read and REREAD what was taught to me by the Bright class once a month as my trading progresses. I find myself regurgitating it, over and over in my mind, and each time, BECAUSE I HAVE MATURED AS A TRADER, more and more of it makes sense to me. You see, we see things as WE ARE, not AS THEY ARE. As for Earl. When I took the course, Earl was responsible for talking about Trading Psychology. For example, he talked about how, some traders, after making some decent money, decided to stop trading so as not to "give it back." He then went on to explain, how the same trader, when he is down, is glued to his screen the whole day trying to get his money back. He went on to explain how this was completely BACKWARDS - you should hit hard when you are doing well, and you should step back when you are not. I knew this coming in, but it is one thing to think you know it and another to KNOW IT - thanks Earl, I always remember... There are many other examples - I can talk about how Jim Nichols, the old manager of the Chicago office looked at the market and his routine in the morning - I really appreciated that Jim. Or how a couple of first rate traders, at each of the courses, get up and talk about how they are doing and how they got over the learning curve - I appreciated that too Jeff... Then there is Bob - the ultimate traders trader. What can I say? I just listened and took it in...Thanks Bob. I was lucky enough to listen to fast Eddy, he was still giving the course back in '99. I learned how he trades the sectors, and how he looks for the rotation that is so common. But wait, you have to understand the "Food Chain" part for that... And then, there was just the office with a bunch of mostly guys (some women as well) that, well, the first time I saw it, was really cool. I sat next to one trader and didn't say a word - I didn't want to get noticed. I watched him trade the Oil Services, magic companies like BJS, SLB, BHI, ESV, NE and others. I memorized his screen and tried to piece together what I had learned, and how this information was being used to make trades. Or, I remember all the little "Post It" notes with names like GE/HON and scores of others, and how some guys just did that all day long - playing the M/A spreads... Then there were the pairs traders - Oh my, don't get me started on this... Really, the list goes on and on...For me, it was a gold mine, and I was like a kid in a toy store.... nitro
"Give up vhehn. You have tried every trick in the book to protect your precious Don. He's a big boy, let him speak for himself" i dont even know don.never even met him.i just get tired of people like you who somehow think they are entitled to pay a few bucks and be spoonfed the holy grail.if it was easy everyone would be trading. just remember you started this thread.either quit posting or take the heat.
Nitro, I respect your opinion, but I would like to make some comments on it. Please do not think that I wasn't trying to get something out of it, I most certainly was - but in the end, I found very little. For example, when I went to the course, part of it was talking about what was acceptable behavior at a professional trading office and what was not. I thought it was complete common sense. However, I understood that the "training course" was also Bright's last "stand" to make sure that it was weeding out the people that did not have the proper mental attributes to be handed $1M of buying power and the capacity to blow themselves to bits in a day, and then, like Mark Barton, come back and take it out on his peers. So I listened and I am glad I listened, because I don't have the greatest etiquette in the world and I was glad to know what was proper and what was not. Does it help my trading per se? Hard to say... You mean you couldn't simply use your common sense to determine that it's inappropriate to throw chairs around or bang the keyboard? The training course is not Bright's last chance to "weed out" people, it's the last chance to sell them on joining. It would take an absolute total dip shit to not get accepted by Bright. What are they gonna judge you on? It's not like they interview before letting you join...come on man. Now, let's talk about the "Food Chain." Well, I can plainly tell you that understanding this has not helped me read the tape so much (though it has some) but it has given me other insights that have helped my trading. Again, perhaps not so plainly, how much thought have you given to this? If something doesn't come to you right away, it is automatically worthless? I read and REREAD what was taught to me by the Bright class once a month as my trading progresses. I find myself regurgitating it, over and over in my mind, and each time, BECAUSE I HAVE MATURED AS A TRADER, more and more of it makes sense to me. You see, we see things as WE ARE, not AS THEY ARE. The "Food Chain" as you call it comes down to big money and small money. Who has the big money? Mutual funds, hedge funds, pension funds etc Who has the small money? Retail and Prop traders (and depending on the stock, they may be BIG money). Now, when you look at the tape, you see big prints and small prints, right? Does it MATTER whether it's a pension fund or a hedge fund? Not really. It's not like you're gonna say, 'ooh, that's a mutual fund man, it's gotta be. Well then, that means I'm gonna do this.." Sure it's important to understand - but it does NOT warrant spending 2 freaking hours talking about it, especially when the whole course is 20 hours. As for Earl. When I took the course, Earl was responsible for talking about Trading Psychology. For example, he talked about how, some traders, after making some decent money, decided to stop trading so as not to "give it back." He then went on to explain, how the same trader, when he is down, is glued to his screen the whole day trying to get his money back. He went on to explain how this was completely BACKWARDS - you should hit hard when you are doing well, and you should step back when you are not. I knew this coming in, but it is one thing to think you know it and another to KNOW IT - thanks Earl, I always remember... Earl is a damn joke. This guy single handedly wasted about 2 hours with endless trading war stories and other silly anecdotes. i don't know about you, but I prefer getting VALUE for time and money. The "psychology" thing was pretty lame if you ask me. There is nothing that this guy said that has not been said a thousand times better in a book like, "Trading In the Zone". Also, he's the last person who should be talking about psychology. Have you ever asked this guy a question? I doubt that he even listens. It's like he can't hardly wait for me to finish asking my question before he starts talking. Earl was telling us about how he correctly predicted that T-Bonds woudl stop being issued by the government, (we were talkinga bout using them as a leading indicator) and somone asked him, "yeah, but they still trade them don't they?" Earl's answer: "No.." WHat?? THIS guy is educating us and he doesn't even know that T-Bonds are still traded?? PLease! Swing Trading. Earl asked: "what's swing trading?" SOmeone tried to answer but Earl cut him off mid sentence, "swing trading is adding to your position when it goes against you, so that you can cash in when it goes your way." Need I comment on the accuracy of this definition? There are many other examples - I can talk about how Jim Nichols, the old manager of the Chicago office looked at the market and his routine in the morning - I really appreciated that Jim. Or how a couple of first rate traders, at each of the courses, get up and talk about how they are doing and how they got over the learning curve - I appreciated that too Jeff... Then there is Bob - the ultimate traders trader. What can I say? I just listened and took it in...Thanks Bob. There is no denying Bob is a great trader, it's just a pity that he seems to have trouble articulating exactly what made him great. My personal impression was that Bob really lacks the patience to be taking a "school". Too many times he seemed to get upset with people that didn't understand his explanations. Then there were the spread traders - Oh my, don't get me started on this... Don't get ME started on spreads. How's this for a dangerous example of trading advice: According to the Brights, adding to losers on a spread is perfectly acceptable and is encouraged. They gave an example where the trader has $50k in his account and the risk on the spread is $10. Then they say to split this risk into about 6 units and add to the position as it goes against you. So far fine. Except that in their example the ultimate risk added up to $40,000. According to Bob though, that's fine. Bob:"$40,000 is that much money..." Hey? When you only have $50k it sure freakin is! In other words, you are encouraged to bet it all on one trade. I've just gotta shake my head at that....the way I understood trading was the idea is to stay in the game...who knows, Bob's a much better trader than me, maybe I'm wrong.. Also, anyone that's read Don's comments on ET knows how much he is against paying for trading "lessons" "courses" etc. Yet, lo and behold, on Day Four the Brights permit one of their traders to give us a half hour presentation on his spread trading website ($200/month) and a "trader coaching clinic" for $3500. Hmm. Double standards wouldn't you say? Really, the list goes on and on...For me, it was a gold mine, and I was like a kid in a toy store.... The list goes on for me too...
This thread is puzzling. If you do not like Bright don't trade for him. Why bad mouth the person that helps run a firm that you are going to trade with? There are better commissions offered at other firms but Brights commissions are not bad. Leave Don Bright alone he helps run a solid proprietary firm that treats their traders fairly. Plus he is one of the only people that actively gets on this forum to answer questions. Compare them to the competition. Echo: run by people that copied Brights business model, Identical commission structure, less offices, better execution system, and hardware (so I have been told) Worldco: better commissions (for those who have been around awhile) second rate platform also read past posts by people who trade at the firm and you will not be impressed. ie Hit man among others Andover: good commissions if you like to negotiate or have a group of traders that you can bring over with you. Fewer offices. self clearing like Worldco. Schonfeld, Leiber & Wiessman, ETG: Good training, less pay out and in many case significantly higher commissions and or contracts. All three of these firms let you trade very large size. IB and other direct access retail firms: slightly better commissions in some cases and much worse in others, no bullets or conversions, less leverage, remote trading with no offices to trade in (I can't count the amount of money I have made having other traders around me (2,4,6,8) sets of eyes all watching the market are better than one) Take the good with the bad. Lighten up. Lay off the character assassinations.................. Happy trading
this thread is waaaaay too funny! so don b has been "exposed" as a pitch man for his firm who sees trading as either the bright way or the highway??? so don b talks smack about non-bright traders and non-bright methods of trading??? so don b knows shit about trading and makes a living selling you courses and off your commissions and desk fees??? that ain't news..........it's toooooooo obvious
Leave Don Bright alone he helps run a solid proprietary firm that treats their traders fairly. Plus he is one of the only people that actively gets on this forum to answer questions. ooooh, then he must be above criticism... Why is it so wrong of me to bring to light things that should be a concern to anyone contemplating taking the Bright "school"??? I am not telling anyone not to trade at Bright. I've said they are a fine firm, I msylef would like to trade there. That doesn't mean I don't have a conscience. Here is yet another piece of BS told by Don. Talking about price improvement, "I get price improvements on about one third of all my trades. Sometimes I make 100 trades a day..." Yeah RIGHT! Don makes a hundred trades a day sometimes??? And somehow manages to stay on ET all day, answer phones left right and center and effectively run teh whole marketing division of Bright?? (Don don't you dare deny you said that, I know many people who would back me up on it) Call it character assassination if you want, but Don has brought all onto himself. Plus, it's not character assassination if it's true is it? I'll say it again. I have not made up one single lie - everything I have said is the truth. I stake my honor on it. Nobody asked him to come to ET and set himself up as the authority on what works in trading and what doesn't... His sole aim of being here in the first place is to defend his firm. He'll even say that himself. Well, right now it seems like you need some defending doesn't it Don?
What do you want me to say Thug_Life? That I went there KNOWING it was going to be worthless? Don assured me that is was going to be worthwile, that it wasn't just "hype", and I took him at his word. Pretty simple isn't it?