Excerpts from an Israeli soldier's experience in Gaza

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Option Trader, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. Option Trader:

    I suggest that you read the article below (from an Israeli, a jewish person, an ex-IDF, someone who fought in Israel's wars, a top scholar at a top university).

    He reached the conclusion below, which may not be easy for those still on the side of Israel in this war to swallow. It is hard to accept conclusions such as Israel has made itself a rogue state.

    We can resume the discussion after you read it.

    I also want to say that I sense in you a contributor who is above the cut of the typical supporters of what Israel did recently. So, I want to say that while we can disagree, I feel that you may be someone with whom one can conduct an intellectual debate, free of insults and the like.



    "This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so."


    Author is Avi Shlaim is a professor of international relations at the University of Oxford and the author of The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World and of Lion of Jordan: King Hussein's Life in War and Peace.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine
     
    #11     Jan 18, 2009
  2. :D :D :D

    We got your so called "warning". You have a week to pull out with your tail between your legs and lift off your criminal siege.
     
    #12     Jan 18, 2009
  3. The troops are pulling out as we speak. They've got nothing left to do in the shit hole called Gaza. But god forbid you fire one more rocket. But I know you won't. Hezbollah learned their lesson, not a single rocket in 2.5 years but they at least had some military successes, they actually fought back. Hamas heroes spent the war in the basements of Gaza hospitals. LOL.
     
    #13     Jan 18, 2009
  4. a_person:

    You have to calm down. Do not be emotional. I know it is not easy for you to see Israel in the situation it has put itself in. You have to understand that there are two sides to this. You have to open your heart and mind in such debate. Of course my remark applies to your opponents as well.

    I think you have been using in your posts cunning statements. It works with non Jewish and non muslim people, but Jews and Muslims have lived with each other so long that they know each other. Keep that in mind.

    I also think that for futures generations of Jewish people, there is no one as close to Jews in culture and beliefs and values as the Muslims are.

    You have to read the history to know that Jews and Muslims defended each other in peace and war, and Moshe Bin Maimoun can attest to that in his writing.

    If the greatest jewish law giver (Rambam) between Moses and Moses can reach that conclusion, you should listen a bit more carefully.

    The crimes and hate that Jews have been subject to in Europe is unparallel, and contrasts highly with the care, respect and protection (mutually) that Jews and Muslims have had during the time when Muslims were at the helm of military power.


    Ultimately, Jews and Muslims will be friends again. There is nothing around it. Muslims know it, and Jews know it. They are fighting brothers who will one day kiss the cheek of each other, and start crying why their ancesters did this and that!
     
    #14     Jan 18, 2009
  5. sameeh55,

    Question for ya. Are you a young white American girl? My guess is yes. If you don't care to answer, that's fine. I'm just curious.
     
    #15     Jan 18, 2009
  6. Nice post riskfree, I am all for it, now go preach it to hamas, hezbollah, ahmadinejad and other 20 arab and a couple of dozen muslim countries who don't view the existence of a jewish state in their midst as favorably as your post implies they should.

    PS it's probably too late to preach it to Hamas and Hezbollah, I am sure they love Israel dearly now. :D
     
    #16     Jan 18, 2009
  7. Banjo

    Banjo

    #17     Jan 18, 2009
  8. If you'd bothered to read what I wrote, you would've seen that I made no mention what so ever of the resistance fighters. These civilians were killed by your brave tanks, warships and F 16. None of your Israeli sissies dared to come in and fighting the resistance fighters.

    Giving your cowardice mentality, it is no surprise you are laughing at the killing of civilians. Tough man.
     
    #18     Jan 19, 2009