Example of US Tech doing business in China

Discussion in 'Economics' started by ironchef, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. ironchef


    comagnum likes this.
  2. dozu888


    they knew the rule then they are to blame... can't blame China for wanting the IP.

    this is a wide spread issue and it's time to shut down the theft! this is about American dominance, no joke here.
  3. gaussian


    What does it matter? The Chinese will just steal it like they've stolen everything else from every developed nation. Their entire industrial revolution was predicated on the widespread theft and replication of IP from Western countries. They're just throwing a shit fit about this publicly because pro-Chinese sentiment is on the rise due to the tariff situation and they know they can find a sympathetic ear.

    We shouldn't license anything to China. It makes no sense until their IP laws are on par with ours. If market forces have any say they will quickly change their laws when we cut off their life line to technological civilization.
  4. A stupid company time and again. I have been very outspoken against AMD and argued and made the case why Intel is technologically far more advanced than amd in both the retail and enterprise chip markets. Yet AMD stock is pushed up on a daily basis by the AMD fan base (lower avg trading volume in usd notional than your grandma Boeing stock). There is hardly any institutional money pushing the price of this stock up.

  5. Overnight


    AMD chips still melt without a heatsink. F 'em.

    Intel is teh winner.
  6. d08


    Has to be said what without AMD, Intel would still be making 500MHz processors with zero progress. The moment Intel is on top of the market, all development seizes. I'm not sure why anyone bothers to upgrade a processor nowadays, there's no progress.
  7. Fair, competition benefits consumers.

  8. JSOP


    The US and the West needs stop selling out their only advantage, original innovation for short-term immediate goals. Taking advantage of China's big market is to make some money now for immediate gratification of like shareholder value but China's obtaining of West's IP is for the future. Once China gets West's IP now, it can improve, renovate, expand, permutate into something even better, faster, more advanced, and cheaper and it can turn around and resell it back to the West and China will make back all of the money even 10 fold just like what Huawei is doing now. Huawei is based on the Motorola technology back in the 70's. Look at it now. And I am just assuming that China's just making money on the "transferred" IP from West. If China uses it in other areas like defense, weaponry, space technology, information gathering then you don't even know what could be its future impact on not just West's economy but on its entire future. Is it any coincidence that China's government is behind the JV with AMD and involved in the technology transfer agreement?

    This is not paranoia. This is real.
  9. srinir


    Glass houses and all.


    The Spies Who Launched America’s Industrial Revolution
    From water-powered textile mills, to mechanical looms, much of the machinery that powered America's early industrial success was "borrowed" from Europe

    "Long before the United States began accusing other countries of stealing ideas, the U.S. government encouraged intellectual piracy to catch up with England’s technological advances. According to historian Doron Ben-Atar, in his book, Trade Secrets, “the United States emerged as the world's industrial leader by illicitly appropriating mechanical and scientific innovations from Europe.

    Among those sniffing out innovations across the Atlantic was Harvard graduate and Boston merchant, Francis Cabot Lowell. As the War of 1812raged on, Lowell set sail from Great Britain in possession of the enemy’s most precious commercial secret. He carried with him pirated plans for Edmund Cartwright’s power loom, which had made Great Britain the world’s leading industrial power.

    Halfway across the Atlantic, a British frigate intercepted Lowell’s ship. Although the British double-searched his luggage and detained him for days, Lowell knew they would never find any evidence of espionage for he had hidden the plans in the one place they would never find them—inside his photographic mind. Unable to find any sign of spy craft, the British allowed Lowell to return to Boston, where he used Cartwright’s design to help propel the Industrial Revolution in the United States.

    Founding Fathers not only tolerated intellectual piracy, they actively encouraged it. Many agreed with Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton, who believed that the development of a strong manufacturing base was vital to the survival of the largely agrarian country. Months before taking the oath of office as the first president in 1789, George Washington wrote to Thomas Jefferson that “the introduction of the late improved machines to abridge labor, must be of almost infinite consequence to America.”

    “Report on Manufactures,” Hamilton advocated rewarding those bringing “improvements and secrets of extraordinary value” into the country. Among those who took great interest in Hamilton’s treatise was Thomas Attwood Digges, one of several American industrial spies who prowled the British Isles in the late 18th and early 19th centuries in search of not just cutting-edge technologies but skilled workers who could operate and maintain those machines.

    In order to protect its economic supremacy, the British government banned the export of textile machinery and the emigration of cotton, mohair and linen workers who operated them. A 1796 pamphlet printed in London warned of “agents hovering like birds of prey on the banks of the Thames, eager in their search for such artisans, mechanics, husbandmen and laborers, as are inclinable to direct their course to America.”

    Digges, a friend of Washington who grew up across the Potomac River from the president’s Mount Vernon estate, was one such intellectual vulture. Foreigners recruiting British textile workers to leave the country faced £500 fines and a year in prison, and Digges found himself jailed repeatedly.

    The American spy printed 1,000 copies of Hamilton’s report and distributed them throughout the manufacturing centers of Ireland and England to entice textile workers to the United States. His most successful recruit was Englishman William Pearce, a mechanic whom Digges thought a “second Archimedes.”

    Founding Fathers Encouraged Intellectual Piracy

    Under the Patent Act of 1793, the United States granted dubious patents to Americans who had pirated technology from other countries at the same time that it barred foreign inventors from receiving patents. “America thus became, by national policy and legislative act, the world’s premier legal sanctuary for industrial pirates,” writes Pat Choate in his book Hot Property: The Stealing of Ideas in an Age of Globalization. “Any American could bring a foreign innovation to the United States and commercialize the idea, all with total legal immunity.”

    That’s what Samuel Slater did. The English-born cotton mill supervisor posed as a farmhand and sailed for the United States in 1789. Having memorized the details of Richard Arkwright’s patented spinning frames that he oversaw, Slater established the young country’s first water-powered textile mill in Rhode Island and became a rich man. While President Andrew Jacksondubbed him “Father of American Manufactures,” the English had a quite different nickname for him—“Slater the Traitor.”

    More than two decades after Slater’s emigration, the textile industry in the United States still lagged behind the British who had the cutting-edge technology of the Cartwright power loom, the water-driven machine that weaved thread into finished cloth. Living in Edinburgh, Scotland, under doctor’s orders to recuperate from nervous exhaustion, Lowell grew determined to bring British technology back to the United States.

    Lowell’s upper-crust pedigree had made him an unlikely spy, but that was precisely how he gained access. Bearing letters of reference, the sickly American did not appear to be a threat to the textile mill owners and England and Scotland who gave him the unusual privilege of touring their factories, which were concealed behind fortress-like walls topped with spikes and broken glass. Lowell took no notes and asked few questions, but all the while he studied the power loom design and committed it to memory.

    Back in Boston, Lowell did more than replicate the pirated British technology. With the help of Paul Moody, he improved upon Cartwright’s power loom in 1814 by constructing in Waltham, Massachusetts, the first integrated textile manufacturing mill, which converted cotton into finished cloth under one roof.

    The spinning water wheels of American textile mills—and the stolen secrets upon which they were built—propelled the United States forward and quickly transformed it into one of the world’s leading industrial powers.
    ironchef and curiousGeorge8 like this.
  10. ironchef


    Question: Did the US ban the import of European industrial products or ban European companies setting up shop in the US?
    #10     Jun 8, 2019