I think james_bond has a very good point here. How do you verify supernatural? I am a Christian, but Supernature or God is really a weak argument for something we can't explain today imo.
None of these were fundamental Christian sites as far as I know. Furthermore, the scholars and theologians they quoted were almost for sure anything but fundamental - probably quite the opposite. But notice that you're talking about a "universal spirituality" that is now dominating things. I agree with that completely. But that is not atheism and that's my point.
Hey, which one of us guys wouldn't worship a few giant, fifty foot, nymph-like godesses of fertility for a few years?
That's not the cool part. You're assuming I'm excited that he moved up the "Belief Scale". No, what I was commenting about was that he recognized one of the inherent problems in the Origin of Life Dilemma.
It's kind of a good point. The problem is we don't have any probailities or distributions, so we can't really get anywhere. We can really make up any model we want, which is his point... But my point as far as the supernatural is this: it's not that hard to find the supernatural if you want to. And all of this discussion is really about determining whether or not there is a supernatural realm. So I guess I just wonder why people have never tried it? I mean that's what I did, but then, hey, I grew up post-hippies. Again, I don't really want anyone to try the occult actually, because as I said, I think a lot of things are on the spiritually dangerous side. But a lot of these threads seem like people analyzing football all their lives without ever having played. Even Johnny seems that way. I mean why not just pick up one of the many books on the supernatural and see if there really is any evidence for it? (I wish people would pick up a book on Christian miracles, but I know that would go over like a lead balloon.) Is it going to kill you? I'm a Christian and I remember bringing up the Phoenix Lights Incident and noone had even heard of it on this site. I'm not supposed to be the one who knows about these things...
Ah, okay. I see your point. See, for me, there is no 'Origin of Life Dilemma'. I see our quest for knowledge in epochal terms, not in mere centuries. Our inquiries have only just started and much of what is accepted as good science now will probably be laughed at in 1000 years. Nevertheless, science is constantly amazing me, showing that things I thought were almost religious in their substance (such as telepathy) are now scientifically demonstrable (see MIT study I quoted a while back). The spontaneous organization of life isn't any weirder to me than the workings of an individual molecule of water. Anyone who thinks the two are poles apart doesn't understand much of chemistry. Eventually we will be shown how such 'miracles' are not in fact miracles, but workings of the natural world. With regard to spirituality, I read your first post and assumed that you're a Christian, which usually means something more specific and, in my previous experience, more restrictive and dogmatic. If you're one of those Christians who understands that your beliefs aren't relevant to the majority, we are all good. My issue is with those proselytizing Evangelicals who claim that their personal fairy-tale should somehow affect my life. I will assume you're not one of these until shown otherwise. If you want to see the absolute worst of the Religious Dogmatists, check out the thread entitled 'Intelligent Design is not Creationism'. In it you will see a sickening brand of assertion/denial/obfuscation and blatant intellectual dishonesty. Check the posts by ZZZzzzzzzz and Teleologist.
Yes, upon reviewing the thread, I tend to believe it. I just have a very wary take on believers, since my experience with them has not been good.
I really come here to chat and also learn about science and how other people think. But I hope you recognize that you are far more aggressive than I am: note that you just called my beliefs a "fairy tale". That's a perfect example of how Christians are expected to be quiet little Prince Myshkin figures while everyone else gets to say whatever they feel like. You feeling sorry for me yet? No, I used to get irate at stuff like that on these threads and attack back, but now I figure people are just people...
Maybe Nik is suggesting that proseletyzing evangelicals' beliefs are fairy tales with no reflection on your beliefs. Seems like a reasonable dude. I go to bed.