Evolution - A Weak Argument for the Anti-Supernatural?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ShoeshineBoy, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. Before I say anything, let me state that I am a Christian that believes that evolution is responsible for a great deal of life on this earth. I don't know whether it's 25% or 80% - genetics and a study of the genomes will answer that for us over the next few decades. But imo the evidence is very strong that evolution was a dominant force during much of earth's history. (Francis Collins, a Christian and head of the Human Genome Project, made me a "believer".)

    That said, I would like to propose that evolution is actually a weak argument for anti-supernaturalism. There are many ways to approach this, but I'll start with two interesting ones imho. Let me begin by asking a couple of questions:

    1. Why are you a Rock Star? Seriously, think of how your brain is stimulated by certain underlying rhythms, harmonies and melodies. How can evolution explain all those screaming girlie teens at the first Beatles' concerts? How can evolution explain how I am almost sent to heaven by a Bach organ concerto or listening to Linkin Park or marveling at the 6/4-based rhythms in some of the Mali music? It just doesn't make sense.

    And, before you answer flippantly: consider that music is known for being highly mathematical. Mathematical-types often make good musicians and vice versa. If you have ever studied music theory, then you know what I am talking about. Again, why would music lift us to such ecstasy, change our mental chemistry if we're entirely the product of random processes?

    2. Why are you a 3D, Surround Sound Super Studio? Think of the millions and millions of out of body experiences, lucid dreams, visions, near death experiences and other hyper-sensory experiences that have occurred since the dawn of mankind. These commonplace experiences are generally breathtakingly real and spectacular. Take the typical OOB experience for starters: the person feels and sees in total 3D, often leaving his immediate surroundings, flies through a wide variety of backdrops, communicates with other beings and many other experiences that make the video games of today seem like Ms. Pac Man.

    Sure, you can induce some of this with hallucinogens, but I don't want really want to discuss how you barely survived the 60's, okay? But I do ask you to compare this to the technology that you experience in a movie theatre. The OOB experience makes a movie theatre look like a silly moving cartoon in a flipbook. Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that Hollywood, with an army of technicians and engineers and budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars and a monstrous media structure behind it, cannot even come close to replicating an run-of-the-mill supernatural experience?

    And now you can guess where I am headed: why would random processes over just a few million years create such sublime super-mathematical phenomenon? In fact, not only why, but how? How in just a few million years of hominid development could we have developed a brain with technology beyond any Cray, any research lab, any multi-media center?

    Or could it be that a Super Intellect created life, then used evolution to progress life through the hominds per a Simon Conway-Morris scenario and then, indeed, created an Adam from one of the end products??

    Considering the narrow bandwidths around so many of the physical constants and parameters of the universe and the solar system, isn't this a perfectly reasonable hypothesis? It beats the heck out of panspermia if you ask me!
  2. Isnt that the way its always been? Man sees something he doesnt understand and thinks it must be God. As more and more "God did it" questions are being answered the believer has to retreat further and further.
    Think about this. Up to this point there has never been a shread of evidence found that would indicate there is a God other than emotional evidence.
  3. maxpi


  4. Actually, isn't it interesting that the opposite is true? Atheism peaked in the 50's and 60's and now is on a steady decline. Paranormal researchers, many of them clinical psychologists, are now documenting case after legitimate case of the paranormal. Youth, doused in the supposedly all-consuming flames of materialism, are experimenting more than ever with the occult, new age and other phenomenon.

    Think about it: as man is supposedly growing more intellectually trained and educated - and much of it with a blatant and unabashed anti-supernatural bias - the incidence of supernatural occurrences is not decreasing. If we're really just floating around Planet of Apes style on a floating rock in space, then why isn't all this superstitious mumbo jumbo going away in Western Europe and America and all the other urban, educated parts of the globe??

    And therein lies two huge problems:

    1. Man is born with an inner desire for the spiritual.
    2. You can't tell someone who has had a out of body experience or seen a Christian healing or a UFO that it is "fake". Why? Because it is usually just as real as everyday life.
  5. Another 'God did it "experience falls. An out of body experience has a natural explaination. Nothing supernatural about it. That is why science demands testable evidence. Because the mind can trick people. So it goes.
  6. Sorry, but this is a lousy example. You could give some more challenging examples, but I don't believe in helping the other team. ;)

    No, seriously, putting a camera behind someone and then flashing the pictures into a virtual environment is simply not the same as an OOB experience. An OOB experience is the ultimate, sometimes terrifying though, for those involved in the occult in particular. It is much, much better than a regular dream or, for that matter, any simulation ride at Disney World or Las Vegas.

    Think about it: the mind gives the body a multisensory experience much, much, much more elaborate and real than anything at an amusement park.

    And here's another problem that you have: often OOB's and NDE's see things in their immediate surroundings that can be corroborated afterwards! In other words, you have the problem that the can be shown NOT to just be in the mind in many cases...

    Again, what advantage would evolution have in creating this kind of experience for man??
  7. Lol, you don't know what evolution is and here you are discussing the weakness of evolution?

    Evolution has no purpose. It just happens.
  8. Sorry, but that's not traditional Darwinism. Traditionalism Darwinism is built on a backbone of natural selection and competitive advantage.

    Why would natural selection build a super-Cray, super-Lightworks SuperRobot?

    The answer is "it wouldn't" and that makes no friggin sense. There is no competitive advantage that can be gained from any of this.

    And you're avoiding the other part of my question: how in a few million years could the human brain be built to a level far beyond the technology of today?

    Again, the answer is that there is no way it reasonably could w/o some kind of supernatural intervention...
    #10     Nov 27, 2007