Evil Doers blow up university students

Discussion in 'Politics' started by candletrader, Jul 31, 2002.

  1. Are men and women equal in God's judgment?

    The answer is different when it comes to God compared with traditional Islam. Every Westerner thinks that Islam is very chauvinistic and oppressive towards women. In Islam of today as practiced by most traditional sectarian Muslims, this is very true. However, in true Islam (Submission), as revealed in the Quran, nothing could be farther from the truth.

    God treats men and women as spiritual equals., Quran 3:195 tells us :

    "Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

    Many of the Muslim countries who claim to follow Islam are treating women as a second class citizens, and some of these women accepted this situation thinking that is what Islam (Submission in English) is advocating. As mentioned previously, God, in the Quran made a complete spiritual equality between men and women, See 3:195.

    Most of the degrading, humiliation and poor treatment in these Muslim Countries for women, came from the desertion of the Quran , and refusal of the word of God in favor of some fabrications written in Hadith books that put women on the same level with animals, monkeys , asses or dogs.

    The total respect and rights guaranteed by God for the Muslim women can not be taken away by a lie written in another man-made book. While God made men and women spiritually equal as seen in 3:159 the traditional Muslims who prefer Hadith over Quran always remind the women of this alleged Hadith:

    "Women are naturally, morally and religiously defective". (Bukhary).

    That is what Bukhary writes not what God says, not what the prophet who represents the message of God could have said, since this statement is totally against the Quran. Because women usually do not have the physical strength of man, hadithists see them as "naturally defective". They forget that women have other natural qualities in which they are superior to men, like their ability to endure pain, the ability to bear children, etc.

    Hadithists see women as "morally defective", conveniently ignoring the fact that the vast majority of individuals jailed for murder, rape, child abuse, etc. are men. And hadithists claim that women are "religiously defective" but it is they (not God in the Quran) who forbid their daughters from praying and fasting during their menstrual periods and it is they (not God) who discourage the women from going to the mosque, even for Friday prayers.

    Their problem is that they have taken the words of men instead of the words of God. After making it all but impossible for a woman to practice her religion for about 25% of her life (the amount of time most women have their periods), is it any wonder that hadithists claim that the majority of people in Hell are women????!

    However what God revealed in the Quran is very different. The spiritual equality between men and women is reiterated in 4:124, as follows:

    "As for those who lead a righteous life, MALE OR FEMALE. while believing, t hey enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice"

    and again in 16:97:

    " Anyone who works righteousness, MALE OR FEMALE, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense for their righteous works."

    and yet again in 40:40,

    [40:40] Whoever commits a sin is requited for just that, and whoever works righteousness - MALE OR FEMALE - while believing, these will enter Paradise wherein they receive provisions without any limits.

    I believe it is time to go back to the Quran, and believe God, before a day comes when the messenger will complain to God, that the Muslims deserted the Quran, 25:30

    By L.S.
    #191     Aug 7, 2002
  2. 1/ when talking of the situation of women in Islam you are wrong.. you have talked about women in muslim countries... this is completely different... In this case I will tell you that in France, women had the right to vote only in 1956 and that they accessed certain schools only in the seventies.. this is not that far.... Women really emancipated in europe only in the seventies not in the beginning of the 20th century...

    Moreover, black people in america till the sixties were not even considered as human beings in some states...

    And more than that in many african non muslim countries the situation of women is no better than in muslim countries. In China and India also the situation is not that great....

    Even in Japan a developped country women are not respected as they should be...

    I agree with you the situation of women in some (not all) muslim countries is far from great and this is certainly not the way it should be done according to islam.. This is a bad thing and I can assure you that I reject completely what happens in arabia saudia. But it is certainly not islam but the stupidity of men..

    So do not misinterpret Islam and concerning the sentences that are chocking you have an explanation... I cannot do more. and I don't think there is anything else to say...

    For you everything that comes from Islam is bad and everything that comes from the US is good... like Bush said good and evil... this is very naive but may be you are naive...

    One day I met with some american girls from california studying at Ucla and when I said to them I was from africa they did not believe an african could be white.. and when i said I was arab she belived I had 4 wives and so..... I think they were quite naive it's not their fault. Generally, Americans (not all of them) are interested only by America contrary to european... and so we bombarded them with ideas already made like in macdonald (junk food already made) and so their judgement is already rigid... That is what is incredible in this country since Americans are certainly the most dynamic and energetic people in the world but there is a lack in their international culture..

    It is a great country with people coming from all grounds and origins and it is certainly its main strenght. But it is also far from being perfect...

    I do not want to convince you since it is impossible if you already made up your mind. I just hope I brought some good information on that matter...
    #192     Aug 7, 2002
  3. rs7


    Just a family feud.
    If Abraham had but one son, we would all have been spared 6000 years of one families falling out.
    I have two brothers. So far no one cares if we disagree. It's good to keep a low profile.
    And my dad...he had no visions other than occasionally at a hot dice table, which worked out fine for the world. (Other than my mom).

    I made a comprehensive list of things worth fighting about:
    1.) Who gets the last ice cream pop in the freezer
    2.) Color and model choice of a new car. This only applies to married couples. (and possibly automatic vs. stick on certain cars)

    I made a list of things worth hating too...complete and unabridged:
    2.)Hatred itself
    #193     Aug 7, 2002

    Are you just copying all that stuff straight from some website? I can't believe you actually sit there typing all that crap!

    You know, a problem arises in "interpretations" of religious documents because if we were to simply take them at their face value, we'd quickly realise what a load of complete fucking bullshit they are. My question is, if Allah wanted us to understand him properly, why the fuck didn't he just come out and say what he mean????? You cannot answer that can you!

    The answer is that there is no freakin Allah, there is no freakin God. All we have are these BS documents called Bible and Koran that contain ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help a person live a happy, fullfilled life. Historical/Archeological evidence EASILY demonstrates that we have no justification for thinking that the Koran is the word of Allah - instead we have evidence to say that it was compiled from MANY differente sources. Why do you think that stupid book repeats itself over and over and over. Is Allah so stupid that he keeps forgetting what he's already told us??
    I'm not just one-sided. Christianity: NO extrabiblical evidence for the EXISTANCE of Jesus. Come on! The world is so freakin blind I can't believe it!!!

    As for the whole women and Islam argument you make. Buddy, I don't GIVE A FUCK what YOU think! Look around you! Look at the GOVERNMENTS that endorse these outrageious human rights abuses IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

    If you think THEIR interpretation of Islam is wrong - go and tell THEM, don't tell ME.

    I am sick and tired of answering your freakin BS, long winded posts that have NOTHING TO SAY.

    You, my friend, are one total hypocrite! You pick and choose parts of the Koran you LIKE and then "intrepet" the parts you DON'T LIKE to suit yourself! Your "explanations" have not "explained" to me ONE SINGLE THING.

    Why do you keep bringing America into it? The governent of America has nothing to do with christianity or islam. It is a SECULAR government! Americans are naive you say? OF course there are naive Americans, *I* am not one of them. There are naive frenchmen, and germans and all sorts. Your point is???? You have no point.

    Learn to make your arguments short and succinct so that people will actually bother reading them and be able to understand what you are trying to say.
    #194     Aug 7, 2002
  5. Apparently you have read nothing. How can you explain a religion in a few sentences... How can you resume history in one sentence... impossible..

    Not only are you idiot but also intellectually weak...

    Those guys in Saudi Arabia are dictators backed by the US.... they don’t represent Islam but themselves Islam never accepted dictatorship... So if you say those guys make this in the name of Islam.. it is the same as saying Hitler killed the Jews in the name of Christianity. I also talked about the “Killings” of millions of African Asian and Indians ... in the name of Christianity.. They said they wanted to civilize the uncivilized it is the chritians who said that not Muslims...

    Whereas for the Muslim here is what Dr. Gustav LeBon in his book "Civilization of the Arabs," says, "The reader will find, in my treatment of the Arabs' conquests and the reason of their victories, that force was never a factor in the spread of the Koranic teachings, and that the Arabs left those they had subdued free to exercise their religious beliefs. If it happened that some Christian peoples embraced Islam and adopted Arabic as their language, it was mainly due to the various kinds of justice on the part of the Arab victors, with the like of which the non-Moslems were not acquainted. It was also due to the tolerance and leniency of Islam, which was unknown to the other religions."

    These guys are certainly doing what they do in the name of their religion but it is for their own interests and certainly not for Islam nor for Christianity....

    Historically there are 2 key periods in the history of religion the 7th century with Islam and the 15th, 16th century with the waking call of Christianity… this is what you have to judge those 2 key periods… in the first Lebon said but also many other historians said what they had to say but for the other period you know what happened good things but also many bad things….

    What I pointed out is that I completely refute the fact that Islam is the worst religion ever. and I proved it historically. Concerning the sentences you found you have a complete explanation which I gave you a link of. But apparently you haven’t even took the time to read it.

    You said that Islam called for hatred of the others and I sent you a complete explanation of what you thought was hatred of the others.. Now the thing is religion needs long years to be mastered and we cannot on a trading forum debate indefinitely… talk to me Rsi, support resistance but forget about that…

    I am ready to chat with you but your aim is not to learn but to shout things that are on your mind or on your heart and I can’t do nothing for you… Sorry … I am a busy man ..

    I may be wrong but I am not a fanatic... you never ever brought a solid historical argument that Islam was the worst ever religion on earth... and when you say that a regim a religion or anything else is the worst you have to prove it historically… and I don’t yet think that this religion killed and violated the human rights as Christianity did….

    But I am not anti Christian I don’t live in a closed world and my best friends are not Muslim and I haven't lived the humiliation of colonisation.. I also know that today Muslim countries are not at their best and that there million of people living in miserable conditions… but not only in Muslim countries… Africa, Asia, India, China……

    You have to know that 80% of the wealth of the planet belongs to 20% of the inhabitant of the planet… You have to know that whole African countries were raped and manipulated… Remember what happened in the Zaire with Lumumba… that guy was killed by the Cia that put instead of him Mobutu that stealed his country one of the richest in Africa more than 2million of people died because of that … Don’t only blame Islam or laziness…. No no no open your eyes and don’t be naïve… I sent several texts on that matter before…

    No Mr, Islam has never been and is not the worst.. If you want to PM me I would be glad to talk to you about whatever you want… even technical analysis …. I am a very good at it :) :)

    Good luck and take care… we will certainly never agree so I prefer to exercise my stop loss and exit my position :) :) :)
    #195     Aug 7, 2002
  6. Hi Traderfut,

    I don't think too many of us have got anything against your religion of Islam, which I have stated is based on sound principles (a big pity however that so many "muslims" are transforming Islam into a fanatical ideology)...

    I, for one, have got no issues with Islam (my issue is with people calling themselves muslim who fly aeroplanes into buildings or blow themselves up on buses), but I aint sure if my thread is the right place for a tutorial on the religion of Islam... you're totally welcome to post here, but maybe the nature of your recent posts would be better suited to a new thread titled "Islam, its basis and relevance in contemporary society"...

    This thread is meant to be about Terrorism, not a lesson on Islam..

    Thanks for your understanding,
    #196     Aug 7, 2002
  7. I was only answering questions...

    But as I said in the previous I won't post anymore... I have urgent workto complete and this thread took a lot of my time :))

    Good trading and take care

    #197     Aug 7, 2002
  8. rs7


    Daniel...you keeping up with the news today?
    #198     Aug 14, 2002
  9. There are millions of religious people living happy, fulfilled lives who would happily disagree with you.

    The world is so freakin blind I can't believe it!!!

    Perhaps there are none so freakin blind as those who will not freakin see.
    #199     Aug 14, 2002