Evil Doers blow up university students

Discussion in 'Politics' started by candletrader, Jul 31, 2002.

  1. rs7

    rs7


    Sorry, I tried to address what you said here and accidentally lost it all.
    I will try again after the market closes if you are interested.
    Meanwhile, what points did I ignore? I will try and address them if I can.
    Let me just quickly say that we are both entitled to our opinions, and they can be different. These are complex issues. I am sure we are both right and wrong not only subjectively, but probably factually as well. I am by no means a scholar of Middle East studies. I only know what I have read, and what seems to make sense to me. This does not make me right.

    The only thing I vehemently disagreed with you about is that you said I was "delusional" for claiming that the arabs were not forced to leave Israel. So far, I have yet to be convinced otherwise.

    As far as your assumptions about my beliefs, I think you would be quite surprised if you were to let me state them without personally attacking me. I never called YOU delusional, or even wrong. I only said that the "right of return" issue was a delusional one. You disagree with me. But this makes ME delusional?
     
    #11     Jul 31, 2002
  2. Magna

    Magna Administrator

    I'm sure Candletrader is not one of those armchair quarterbacks who likes to play theoretical wargames that, when put into practice, end up costing the lives of many young men. As such he's probably volunteered his services to be on the front lines in the desert in the event of an Iraqi war. I admire that, and just as soon as I confirm that he has indeed signed up and committed years of his own life, and quite possibly his life itself for the noble cause, I'll be right behind him. Although I've already served 3 years in the Armed Forces, I feel Candle's pain, I feel Candle's outrage....
     
    #12     Jul 31, 2002
  3. rs7

    rs7

    bung, as always, you are on the money.
    These "leaders" the Arafats and Khadafi's and Bin Ladens and Saddams and the rest are no more than rich gangsters. If they lived in East Los Angeles, they would be doing the same things they do now. Just without the political protection they enjoy. And less sophisticated weaponry. But they would still have risen to the top of their professions, which is to say they are just born gang leaders. Only their "colors" would be different. They would still be killers, dope dealers and bullies.

    also, I agree with your "drunk redneck" ramark. amazing how the mentality can be so accurately stereotyped. get a pickup truck, a few guns, confederate flag bumper stickers, and you are all set. gotta love guns, and the death penalty, (but the "right to life" issue doesn't seem to be a conflict here...this has always stumped me), and get a tattoo so if you are shot down over new jersey they will know where to return the body.
     
    #13     Jul 31, 2002
  4. rs7

    rs7

     
    #14     Jul 31, 2002
  5. The Arabs weren't forced to leave Israel, but they had no choice. Every persecuted European Jew during the 1930s and 40s made their way to Palestine and effectively displaced the Arab population. The Jews had better political organization and after the atrocities of the Holocaust, the United Nations was very sympathetic to their plight to establish a home in Palestine because of their "historical" ties to the land. The Brits relinquished control of Palestine in 1948 and the Jews defeated the Arabs and took over their country, and renamed it Israel. In essence, the Palestinians were forced out of their country. Anyone who thinks the Arabs just decided to voluntarily leave their homes and become refugees has been smoking too much crack.
     
    #15     Jul 31, 2002
  6. rs7

    rs7

    The context is important.
    The jews defeated the arabs in 1948 only because it was their only alternative to their own defeat. They were attacked from all sides on the day the state of Israel was founded.
    And the Arabs (there was no such thing as "Palestinians" yet) did indeed leave. If they were forced out, it was not by the Israelis.
    The proof of this, if you want it, is that there are still Arabs in Israel. Those who stayed were granted citizenship, the right to vote, the right to serve in the government...essentially all the things they were denied by the arab countries that took in those who chose to be refugees. They could not be citizens or have any of the rights of citizens in Egypt, Syria, Lebenon, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia. They didn't even take what was offered in Jordan for the most part. If they had, then there would be no issue of displaced Palestinians now. Jordan WAS Palestine. It was created for that purpose. Of course, they would prefer to take Israel now...the work is done. What was once just a desert like Jordan has been transformed by 54 years of devoted hard work. Now they (Arafat) want to just take it back. Why didn't they make something of Jordan? Obviously is it easier to let others do the work, then murder them and take what they had away. Good plan!!

    You are right about historical ties to the land! Good point. When was the first time that the term Palestinian was heard? 5,000 years ago? 4? 3? How about 35 years.....I think that is about right. Was there such a thing as a Palestinian before 1967? Nope!!!

    I guess my crack pipe is working just fine. 'Cause obviously I am under the influence according to what you say.
     
    #16     Jul 31, 2002
  7. #17     Jul 31, 2002
  8. bung rider was right. I have known a few rich arabs and they are mostly bored, love Vegas, not religious fanatics, and they don't drink alchohol but they smoke hash instead, they are not pious. It is the poor uneducated peasants that are religious fanatics and that can be talked into the suicide bombings. Also, usually the suicide bomber has a promise of money going to his family if he does the deed.

    So , if you are suicidally depressed, desperately poor, illiterate, and a religious fanatic, being a suicide bomber is a viable career move. The general living conditions and political environment has to change in order to stop breeding the bombers.

    Before the attack, I was content to live and let live, and don't do any premptive stuff. Now, it is our ass on the line and not just oil, and we don't have a choice. Eventually they will get a nuke or some nerve gas or something, and then it will be too late.
     
    #18     Jul 31, 2002
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    #19     Jul 31, 2002
  10. Josh_B

    Josh_B

    Jews have better access to our politicians here. And they can buy..err.. influence our international policy to the extreme. We need an outpost in the middle east so we can control the oil fields. After all our present administration appears to be energy appointed and controlled.

    Arabs, Palestinians and whoever else, doesn't have that much influence at least for now. I wonder if they would behave better, if they would get the same aid as Israel.

    Here are our tax dollars at work:
    Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
    Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

    Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
    $74,157,600,000

    Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
    $9,047,227,200

    Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
    $1,650,000,000

    Grand Total
    $84,854,827,200

    Total Benefits per Israeli
    $14,630

    http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

    Just leave them all alone to duke it out. Keep our money home educate our children, our homeless, clean up the corporate mess, create jobs and take care of our problems here.

    Josh
     
    #20     Jul 31, 2002