What makes you think "against my will"? I only can make informed opinions. You gave me information that was worthy of thought. But then tf 2000 refuted your interpretation of the koran. I am not knowledgeable at all in the teachings of Mohammed. So I guess there is no resolution. His counterpoints seem reasonable too. Even though he thinks I am "dangerous" and he has made up his mind about me. He said you and I and Candle think that Islam is the "worst". I never said that anywhere. I said what you said was scary. And maybe I accepted it too easily. Maybe TF2000 is right. I hope he is. I would like to think a whole religion cannot be evil. Having said this, I will state here and now that I do not personally believe organized religion has contributed to much other than intolerance and war. I believe in God, but not religion. I believe in truth, justice and the american way like Superman. I took a bullet in the back on behalf of our country. And that was not the even in the top 10 of my most unpleasant experiences in SE Asia. War sucks, and that one started about religion too.
You really have nothing else to do than talking about things you donât know and disturb non English people that do however, understand you are stupid.. If I quoted the prophet and Omar that was to show that not only that was not what the kuran said but also what the prophet, first person representing and preaching Islam, was against discrimination⦠you cannot aggress a person of the book unless of course he aggresses you. Force here is used as a prevention not a way to destruct others⦠Moreover, at that time the prophet said that science was precious and that one should even go to china to learn and improve his knowledge⦠Is that enough as an answer????? Now if I donât speak English very well since this is not my first language but my fourth what can I say of you Mr stupid irrational⦠I asked you several times why islam is the worst religion ever and what I have in answer are insults intimidation but no plain answer⦠So I will repeat it once again why do you say âRELIGION is the worst thing that happened to mankind. And, as far as religions go, Islam is DEFINITELY the worst.â I gave several facts you brought nothing⦠Your words are futile and it is what propaganda is all about⦠you talk a lot about something but you donât bring any clue⦠Itâs like for instance in France there is lepen and this guy says : 3 million immigrants and 3 million unemployed.. Arabs and blacks are stealing work from the poor white French⦠this guy made 20% at the latest elections terrific⦠So donât be a lepen and bring arguments⦠I can accept whatever you may say if there are facts.. I also want to know.. I still believe Islam is a peaceful religion that when Islam was at its top science philosophy and tolerance flourished and that was the first and the last time in history that the three religion were cohabitating in peace and harmony.. these are facts⦠and any real historian will never say the contrary.. what you are saying is what lepen says to his voters.. no better.. he says that there is a superior race and that there are savages that have strange habits⦠meaning islam.. People that are not as intelligent may really believe what you are saying unfortunately it is the case in franceâ¦
I do not like to post that much. I prefer reading. However fascism changed face. Why was I angry after candle and Rs7???? After all candle is a nice chap and he is very active in this forum and I would say the same of rs7.. By the way rs7 I read you thread about successful trading and I found it very interesting.. thanks a lot ⦠Today fascism has changed face for me ⦠of course before it was the Jews, but today the real victims are Muslims and Arabs⦠and a way to discredit people is either history ⦠you are a savage.. I have the historical proves⦠look at its culture its women, religion education and then you take a few elements and you create a propaganda⦠For the Jews it was money, they had big noses, they smell the facts used by german propagandaâ¦. And for the Arabs we are finding things such as Islam is an intolerant religion these are killers terrorists⦠The fact is in any propaganda you will find some truths but that are amplified... The propaganda is used to eradicate a nation or a group of people⦠Today there are already more than 1.5 million people dead in Irak several thousands in Afghanistan and I think that there will be more and more people killed because of this propaganda⦠of course I forgot the 5,000 people dead in the WTC... god bless them all... So Mr Rational when you write what you are writing the sad thing is that you are contributing to the killings of innocent children, women and men... I am pretty sure of that... I will always remember in 1990 when I was in France and walking with a friend, I saw a bottle of milk exploded in front of me thrown from the third floor of a building and a French shouted to me... f... o dirty arab go back to your country... what is funny is that my grand father was an officer in the french army and that he fought german and the nazis... I did not say anything and I did not even want to fight with this stupid guy but I was really sad.. at the same time on many walls you could read dead to the arabs and arabs out.... what do you want me to say.... I am not Iraki and I never cautioned saddam but I understood that people are stupid and that westerners that consider themselves civilised still have a lot of work to do. The danger is near⦠France was not that far, Netherlands also and there are more and more far right movements in the western world.. it is not a few countries, like Germany and Italy before but the whole western countries know an increase in fascism⦠even Israel, a country inhabited by former victims of the nazism, is doing no better and elected a far right minister that was responsible for the massacre of sabra and chatila⦠So my friends, whether you like Islam or not that is not the question⦠The only thing I am asking is being responsible of your words⦠1.5 million innocent Iraqi already died, I am pretty sure there will be much more.. but I also want to believe there is a real humanity in this world⦠we are all from the same blood after all even if our ideas differ... God bless humanity and bring peace in this bloody world⦠Ps : if you really want to ask me questions you can Pm me... but I really prefer not to participate to this thread again... I think I brought my ideas and I am ready to answer all of your questions..
Originally posted by rs7 I only can make informed opinions. You gave me information that was worthy of thought. But then tf 2000 refuted your interpretation of the koran. He most certainly did NOT refute my "interpretation" of the Koran. He has yet answer ONE point I made. And it's not an "interpretation" - I am quoting directly from the Koran, word for word. It's not like I said, "here the Koran is trying to say this....." I wasn't giving you my interpretation - it's right there in black and white in the Koran itself. I am not knowledgeable at all in the teachings of Mohammed. And yet you've offered no shortage of commentary on a thread in which the basis of Islamic belief (and hence terrorism) - the Koran itself - is a central topic. So I guess there is no resolution. His counterpoints seem reasonable too. His COMMENTS are reasonable, but they are certainly not COUNTERPOINTS. As I said, I'm yet to hear his reply to the actual CONTENT of the Koran. I have nothing against TF2000 himself, he is most certainly a very reasonable man. Even though he thinks I am "dangerous" and he has made up his mind about me. He said you and I and Candle think that Islam is the "worst". I never said that anywhere. I said what you said was scary. And maybe I accepted it too easily. Maybe TF2000 is right. I hope he is. I would like to think a whole religion cannot be evil. And scary it is. And, from my investigation it is the TRUTH too. I didn't just wake up one day and start thinking what I think - it is a result of a careful search. I know what I say sounds hateful and divisive, but I am simply relaying what I have found. I have no ulterior motives.
Traderfut, I really don't know what to say to you... I have asked you on multiple occasions to indicate whether or not the Koran says certain things - which I will quote again below - but have not received one answer from you yet. Also, you keep telling me to stop talking abou the Koran because I know nothing about it. You, as a muslim, keep defending it, but have offered NO EXPLANATION for its content. I ask you: Do I need to believe the Koran before I can comment on it? See, I don't believe in the Bible either, but no Christian has ever denied me the right or questioned my ability to comment on it. I don't believe in astrology or numerology, but surely if I was to educate myself in them, I could comment intelligently without believing them, right? Also, you keep giving me examples of how Muslim PEOPLE have acted with compassion and kindness in certain episodes of history. The thing is, I never once disputed that Muslims can be (or are) kind and compassionate. My problem is with the RELIGION - specifically, what is contained in the Koran. As I have said, muslims believe the Koran is the verbatim word of Allah. I have said this causes problems. I submit that if Muslims have acted with kindness and compassion towards non-Muslims, they have done so because they surely realise the absurdity of what is written in the Koran. You have not addressed a single one of my concerns. If you don't understand the English I am using, please tell me, and I'll try to say it simpler. I am going to number each quote, and I provide a reference for you to look it up in the Koran. I would appreciate if you could offer a comment - even just "yes" or "no" - for the quote. 1) "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends" 005.051 2) "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (a penalty tax for non-muslims) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." 009.029 3) "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. " 002.191 4) "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)." 009.123 5) (speaking of the fate that befalls non-believers) "In gulps will he sip it, but never will he be near swallowing it down his throat: death will come to him from every quarter, yet will he not die: and in front of him will be a chastisement unrelenting." 014.017 6) "These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water." 022.019 Is that enough for you? I could go on for hours. But I'd like to hear your comments on the above. They all come from the Koran - not some propaganda writer, as you would have people believe. Now, you ask me why I say Islam is the worst of all religions? Well, tell one other religion (mainstream) that prescribes such cruelty. Come on, just one. I don't want an example of how Muslims cared for Jews or some other feel-good story about Muslims - I'll say it again. The PEOPLE aren't the problem, it's the RELIGION. Most muslims don't DO the kind of stuff that the Koran says they ought to, I guess that's because they realise the sheer stupidity of the Koran. You want a specific example of Islamic idiocy? There are PLENTY, but this one struck me as particularly cruel and asinine. A report from the Associated Press about rescue attempts by firemen in Saudi Arabia: âThe newspapers accused members of the religious police ¯ the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice ¯ of blocking rescue attempts by male firefighters and paramedics because some of the girls were not wearing the mandatory Islamic dress, which covers the entire body and hair. âThey forced the girls to remain inside the school and didnât allow them to leave, saying that their hair wasnât covered and they werenât wearing the abaya (long robe),â the Al-Eqtisadiah newspaper said, citing firefighters and police.â Traderfut, I realise it is very unlikely you are going to come out and say, "my GOd, yes Daniel you are right. My religion is a load of crap", but PLEASE could you directly answer the things I have spoken about?
I thought you received my private email.... This is what I Pmed you .... Think what you want. belive it or not but for me this is Islam and this is what I learned... Here is the link of a web site found on the net http://www.submission.org/terrorism.html and an extract Actually the word "Islam" in addition to meaning submission (to God), is also derived from the Arabic word Salam (peace). The Muslims (Submitters) greet other people by saying Salaam (Peace be upon you) [Quran 49:13]"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. " The religion of Islam (Submission in English), advocates freedom, peace and mutual agreement and admonishes aggression. [Quran 5:87] ... and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors. [Quran: 7:199] ......You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant. [Quran 6:151] "...... You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand." [Quran17:33] "You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. ....." The laws of the previous scriptures that applied to previous generations and current generation are repeated and emphasied for the Muslims (Submitters) in the Quran. Muslims (Submitters) are commanded to follow such laws. Quran reiterates ;. [Quran 5:32] "......, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. .............." The religion of Islam condemns the killing or even the persecution of people merely because they embrace a different religion. The Quran mandates the absolute freedom of religion in a society. It does not allow Muslims to fight except for self defense and to enforce peace. It does not allow restrictions on those who disagree on religious matters. It urges the Muslims to treat such people kindly and equitably: [Quran 2:256] "There shall be no compulsion in religion...". [Quran 60:8]"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable." [Quran 8:61]"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." [Quran 4:90]"...... Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them."
Dearest Brethren, Go into Iraq, bomb the military infrastructure out of existence... install a leader answerable to Washington... secure lucrative oil contracts with the puppet leader and secure the lionshare of Iraqi oil supplies at cut prices by ensuring that Washington's puppet leader breaks OPEC guidelines and complies with US guidelines... US public support is secured by an obedient media selling the attack on Iraq as part of the War on Terrorism in the pursuit of (as yet unlocated) weapons of mass destruction... US public re-elects Junior at next election, on a wave of patriotic euphoria... a few months after this wonderful victory over the Evil Doers of Iraq something happens in America, something even worse than September 11th... and the American public wonder why... "surely, who would want to harm us?", wonders the American Public with collective bemusement and exasperation... An objective observer answers: "any one of perhaps 70% of the countries on this planet"... the objective observer suggests to Mr American Public to re-examine the last 40 years of US policy and seek answers by reading between the lines of US geopolitical activity... With love, Fidel Castro P.S. Greenbacks readily accepted in exchange for Cuban cigars of the highest quality...
Well, if there is any truth to what Brother Fidel is saying, maybe I will have to rethink my hardline policy on Iraq... maybe I have it all wrong.... maybe I have fallen hook, line and sinker for media and governmental brainwashing... who knows? But I tell ya what, I sure feel like smoking one of those supreme quality Cuban cigars...
I think there is no universal truth ... the truth is yours it is not universal... What is good for you may be terrible for your neighbour. The only think is to respect the others and really stop the killings... It is certainly not a long term solution... you remember the 100 years war (la guerre de 100 ans) between France and England... France still don't like england and the contrary is true but at least they stopped killing each others.. There is also the massacres made in the St barthelemy when catholics killed protestants one of the bloodiest events in French history... Germany and France fought also during nearly 2 centuries and now they are the best friends in the world.... There is a also very famous french singer George Brassens who said I accept to die for ideas but slowly... the people that have ideas are always the most vehement but you will never see them fighting... and finally he said ideas keep changing so I prefer not to die now and wait for the next idea to emerge... It's the same on the market... if you read any book on trading published 2 or three years ago you will find all the traders were all cheering about the bull market and that it was there to last... that was a crazy period... today every single investor is crying... they lost all their savings hearing those "gurus" .... Today nobody speaks of Abby Cohen, Blodget, Meeker..... Montaigne famous french jewish philosopher said :" what I know is that I know nothing"... this guy was philosopher, doctor and mathematician...
Have we read the same book TF2000?? I waiting to find out!!! You must be either a complete idiot, incapable of understanding the most simple English language request, or you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY IN DEFENCE OF MY ALLEGATIONS BECAUSE YOU KNOW I SPEAK THE TRUTH! I did receive your PM dude, but it ANSWERED NOTHING. I never once said that the Koran doesn't contain references to peace, did I????? I asked you to either confirm or deny that it contains MULTITUDES of references to UNSPEAKABLE CRUELTY. It seems to me Allah doesn't know what fuck he is talking about. He orders people to kill non-believers and then he orders them not to kill. Do you or don't you realise that these instructions are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE - they cannot both be true! I am sick and tired of hearing you dodge bullet after bullet. Islam is the BY FAR the worst religion. What else can you say about a religion that treats fully 50% of its population as second class citizens - women. Words cannot describe how I feel about such a grave injustice as the plight of women in Islamic society! Your leader, Muhammed was a total hoax and phony. Arabs of the 6th and 7th centuries must have been the most gullible suckers in history. Muhammed, to my knowledge, makes no claim to have performed any miracle, yet his story was bought hook, line and sinker! A history of how Islam started boggles the mind at how stupid Muhammed's followers were. Here's an example: Muhammed permitted men to have more than one wife, except the man who married his own daughter - he wasn't permitted to have another wife. What a hypocrite! I could give so many examples of hypocracy of this total fraud it's not funny. And yet, muslims regard Muhammed to have been the greatest living example of a human ever, that his life was perfect! You mean a 50 year old guy that has sex with a 9 year old is perfect (YES THIS HAPPENED, ABSOLUTELY TRUE)?? Gimme a break.