evangelical Pastors selling snake oil

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Free Thinker, May 21, 2010.

  1. Evangelical Pastors tell you that jesus is the answer. he will take your troubles away. he has the answer for a happy marriage and a happy life in general. so,hows it working for them.

    http://www.intothyword.org/apps/articles/default.asp?articleid=36562 reveals even more telling statistics based on a survey of 1,050 evangelical Pastors (note these are evangelical pastors not liberal pastors):

    89% considered leaving the ministry at one time.
    57% said they would leave if they had a better place to go—including secular work.
    77% felt they did not have a good marriage!
    75% felt they were unqualified and/or poorly trained by their seminaries to lead and manage the church or to counsel others. This left them disheartened in their ability to pastor.
    71% stated they were burned out, and they battle depression beyond fatigue on a weekly and even a daily basis.
    38% said they were divorced or currently in a divorce process.
    30% either has an ongoing affair or a one-time sexual encounter with a parishioner.
    23% said they felt happy and content on a regular basis with who they are in Christ, in their church, and in their home!
    The same article also gives the following research distilled from Barna, Focus on the Family, and Fuller Seminary.

    1500 pastors leave the ministry each month due to moral failure, spiritual burnout, or contention in their churches.
    50% of pastors' marriages will end in divorce.
    80 percent of pastors feel unqualified and discouraged in their role as pastor.
    50% of pastors are so discouraged that they would leave the ministry if they could, but have no other way of making a living.
    80% of seminary and Bible school graduates who enter the ministry will leave the ministry within the first five years.
    70% of pastors constantly fight depression.
    40% of pastors polled said they have had an extra-marital affair since beginning their ministry.

    i like this one:
    "30% either has an ongoing affair or a one-time sexual encounter with a parishioner."
    it looks like the catholic priests are not the only ones doing a little dicky dunkin.
  2. interesting that there is no defense by our resident bible thumpers of the fact that the stastics show no benefit to believing in this so called moral god over non believers.
    that is surprising considering the number of times i hear how immoral america would be without religion.
  3. fhl


    Your understanding of the bible is so minimal that it's hardly worth the effort to even converse with you.

    First, the bible never said that if you believe in Jesus, He'll take away all your troubles. And I've never heard a single man of God ever say it, either.

    So, your entire premise is horse manure. <b>What's new</b>.

    The bible actually says, "be doers of the word and not hearers only".

    It's only doers of the word that get results. When you don't do the word, like about 30% of them didn't, you get the same results in life as atheists get. A life in shambles.
  4. oh but it does. we have to assume these preachers were praying for guidence. what happens when people pray? nothing.

    Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

    If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

    Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
    If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.
    In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

    For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
    If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.
    In Matthew 21:21:

    I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
    If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."
    The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
    If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.
    In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

    "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]
    Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.
    We see the same thing over and over again...

    In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:

    Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
    In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:
    And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
    In Mark 9:23:
    All things are possible to him who believes.
    In Luke 1:37:
    For with God nothing will be impossible.
    Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray , nothing happens.
  5. If anything, you get more troubles with being a Christian. All your little survey did was prove that men are not perfect like God. Big surprise that men are sinners!

    Jesus was the son of God and look at all the troubles he had in his life. Look at his disciples...didnt they have a ton of troubles.

    You wrote Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
    If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

    So lets examine your strawman argument. First, you have to believe it for it to work. So why would a believer ask to cure cancer? Cancer kills people. Would a believer ask to cure it because he doesnt want someone to die(himself or a loved one). Why doesnt he want them to die? Is it because he is afraid of death? Why is he afraid of death? Doesnt he believe the word of God about heaven? Therefore if he is afraid of death, he must not really believe, therefore his prayers will not be answered.

    A true believer will never ask for much. Somehow being given life and being given salvation is enough for us. Asking for more is kind of a slap in the face. Its the equivilent of walking in the desert for 3 days without food or water and a man showing up with a peanut butter sandwich and a bottle of water and you saying "hey, do you think you could run to town and get me a cheeseburger & a coke instead? I dont care too much for peanut butter sandwiches and water has no flavor." Its a little insulting and disrespectful, dont you think?

    Back to topic though. Seems like pastors have the same percentages as the rest of our society and their jobs. Just plug in the word "evangelical pastor" with "car salesman" or "professor" and you probably get the same numbers.

    Would you buy a honda from a guy that drives a ford? Chances are you dont really care about what kind of car the salesman drives as long as he has good knowledge about the Honda you are buying.

    Would you learn a subject in college from a professor that couldnt get a job in the "real world"? You probably wouldnt even care about that, as long as he had good knowledge about the subject being taught.
  6. jem


    No arguments from me.

    When you speak about evangelicals you frequently see extremes. Many go from big partiers and drug addicts to big evangelical with a desire to study God as passionately as they took their drugs.

    Few of them really should become pastors.