ETFs killing futures

Discussion in 'Trading' started by local_crusher, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. Aok


    Taxes are a large futures advantage.

    Until Obama decides otherwise.

    Fortunately Cbot/Cme are in Chicago so they probably already got their hooks in him.

    But then again so were dividends for awhile. But the subject is trading, not investing.
    #21     Apr 17, 2009
  2. hughb


    I think ETFs killed OEX options too. I used to trade the OEX back in 98 and quit in 99. I never gave OEX options another thought until one day a few months back when I checked the volume on them out of curiosity. They have a fraction of the volume they had back then and the spreads are MUCH wider. I remember the near term options all had spreads of a steeny even pretty far out of the money. Even a lot of the next month options had a steeny spread. Not anymore, now they look like some illiquid equity option.

    I kind of miss the OEX. Arrogant assholes would always deride OEX traders as pikers. I actually made a nice little chunk of change with them.
    #22     Apr 17, 2009
  3. moarla


    why SPY should be easyer to trade then ES?
    they move exactly the same. EXACTLY!
    (overnight is missing on SPY)

    If there would be any small difference, computers all over the world would close the diff in miliseconds.

    on rollover there is a change in absolute price , but the moves will be the same.

    You can trade both instruments together looking only at the ES chart, and at the end of day, you will have better executions at ES, thats the difference.

    Same with EUR future and EUR/USD FOREX. same moves :)
    #23     Apr 17, 2009
  4. bighog

    bighog Guest

    You pussys should quit worrying about the fees and learn how to trade then maybe you will quit bitching about the cost of doing business. Relative to the cost of doing business in futures and the opportunity of profits, if you compared that to the costs and overhead for 3 kids on your block to set up a Lemonade stand compared to profit potential, futures win.

    But then again the kids on the block will end up with MORE profits than MOST fatheads that come into the trading game thinking it is easier than running a lemonade stand or having a bake sale.


    PS: for yuou clowns that blow out your account and need to make a living:
    #24     Apr 17, 2009
  5. indexer


    There are a lot of after hours fake-out moves in futures that could trigger stops, unlike with ETFs.

    I think a lot of stock brokers are putting client money to work in ETFs. They normally would not be eligible to trade futures.

    The CME has been resting on its laurels and distracted by consolidating exchanges. They lost the Russell futures and have not regained their mojo.

    There is still room for a futures index that tracks high beta stocks and they could make the SP a better product by closing the pit arbitrage (which makes the index too choppy) and reducing fees.
    #25     Apr 17, 2009
  6. Quite a few ETFs are treated as 60/40; depending on what type of vehicle it is.
    #26     Apr 17, 2009
  7. You guys ignoring the tax treatment differences are really missing the boat.

    But if taxes are a non-issue in your trading, then ETFs make sense.

    #27     Apr 17, 2009
  8. nkhoi

    nkhoi Moderator

    #28     Apr 17, 2009
  9. Wrong calculation. In terms of $ traded, ES was worth about 5x higher than SPY. (1 ES ~= 500 SPY).
    SPY 108,630,000
    ES 1,033,281
    #29     Apr 17, 2009
  10. Covert


    Interesting- I'm assuming that the etf's that hold futures contracts qualify- any other resources for fleshing this out?
    #30     Apr 17, 2009