STEENRAM asked a couple of Q's on page 8 and 9 of this thread (According to my of recieving thread posts). My comments to him dealt with some of the aspects of trading SCT at intermediate and expert levels. There is another thread running on "heavy" scalping for stocks and there are some comments on ES. They all are on beginner and intermediate levels. Volume leading price starts on the coarse level and as a trader builds his mind, he naturally inquires to know what is going on "behind" what he is seeing and trading. You are raising the curtain on how a person would fully monitor the market. A trader stays on point in the learning process by looking at the whole snowflake first and then delving further into the parts of the snowflake as he needs to be more effective and efficient. In the jounals our biological model works the same ways. We deal with the forest and then the trees. At some point the limbs and branches become important to look at occassionally. There are two common trader learning errors that come up, especially for do it yourselfers and those who do not accept being mentored by experts. These traders do inventions a lot. Worse still they intuit that by switching from one monitoring levels to another level, they will be able to make more money. Inventions lead to dead ends. The OP here did that one. He invented something he had never seen before. The primary reason it is not seen is because it is wrong and other people before him figured that out and junked it. The level switching on monitoring is very common and it leads to the "freak out trader". Traders think they are learning when they look more and more at less and less. Finally they are down on the one minute chart looking for impulses to make trades. They sometimes even only look at a single elemnt of data streaming at them. The OP has a three line set up that is like wize trade but for impulses on the one minute level. He has alarms (audio) and often they go off simultaneously to tell him to do three diferent things at the same time. So this is the freakout and invention combo sort of extreme result that can occur. You may have noticed how the SPM thread died. Some inventors hung out for a while and there was no possibility of seeing a record of trading develop. There detailed signals from two or three sources took people into trades chop or no chop and they did the am/pm trip of bleeding to death. The growing trader seeks additional incite. He only uses what is needed at any time. To trade well, you have to know you know at all times. This test of skills and knowledge comes under the heading of "sufficiency" logic. In automated computer lingo it looks like 5 degrees of freedom going in>>>70 degrees of freedom operating "inside">>>> 5 degrees of freedom output. Seeing a data set manually can be done just right all of the time. It is a case of looking in the right place at the right time for the right signals. The place can change, the time changes and the number of elements is about the same but the specific selection is usually different. I call the computer and the manual "seeing" a process of "steering" and "focussing". A trader learns to make 2 digits a day on the ES with no steering or focussing and he only has to deal with 5 degrees of freedom at thefront end, inside and on the back end. So he is, as reported in ET averaging 287.50 per day on 1 contract for the first three weeks when he begins; then it begins to creep upward from that point on. He learns to steer and focus starting a couple of months later as we presently bring people along. At the present levels people are trading more than one contract (20 to 30 is mentioned) and the person has had three 100,000 dollars days so far. We are now into the tree level and branches are being looked at. the display has advanced from just looking at the P and V of ES (forest) to also looking at the P and V of the YM and ES and some other things too. One of them started on page 444 and it is called the stretch/squeeze. This is beyond the Steenbarger, Greenspoon, and VSTscalper level of detail for knowing that you know. they are hanging out a little. See: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=91543 As you see they do comment on the DOM as you do. They do not know or regard the four games that we will be doing (Some do already as you know) on DOM nor do they have coding for the stalactites of the DOM nor do they regard the DOM limits a we do. They do not use the aspects of the T&S that we availa ours selves of. The over view is here: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91528&perpage=6&pagenumber=9 You can guess what I have just learned to do easily. When you glance at the above you see that ultimately the expert display when it is presented will have a lot of bells and whistles that are helpful. By then we will know that we know by the fact that we can steer and focus when dictated and ONLY ON A SUFFICIENCY BASIS Learning to trade has many short cuts for the purposeful traders. the path that is followed allows a person to acquire two of the three things quite rapidly. These are knowledge and skills. Smart people are so smart that they goble all of this stuff up very fast and it has almost no use for them. They actually say impatient things about how they are ready for the next steps. What cannot be speeded up usually is trading experience. We CAN gets a day's experience down to 30 minutes at this time however. The usual technological blocks do impede this however. Say I took a person through a years trading doing two weeks a day. A boot camp would get the year done in a month. since it only takes in real time to get to expert about 6 months of pruposeful mentored effort from and expert, the boot camp would be half filled with just expert trading becaue the expereince could be imparted in a satisfactory way. Transference via ET takes longer. So when a person gets to purposefully work on what happens before price and volume, he is getting into the ball park and batting practice under these circumstances is a great experience. But it is also true that a lot of people slowly and permanently extinguish this possibility as you see being done by many people in ET. They decided to conduct themselves directly away from becoming expert traders. At expert level we will wind up with 17 leading indicators of the price (ES we are trading). they are like "countdowns" to the time of the action. What is looks like on the display on two screens is a complete and tidy package. The data sets are done by sweeping and stopping the sweep when you know that you know. Today, you are experiencing stretching a rubber band back from a prior conclusion to just get what you need to determine if that conclusion has stayed the same or changed. The conclusion is a choice of continue or change. this is not possible to be explained as anything but the most simple and diect way to keep making money. The conclusion is a statement of the MODE of the market and it is just the answer to invoking the P, V relationshyip in a manner to listen to what the market is saying from an exquisitely set up market display. Look again at what Steenbarger is saying about how he does repair work on Greenspoon and other of Greenspoon's ilk. greenspoon is scalping (only) stuff that yields millions a year given the applied capital. The alternative is to start from 1 contract on ES and acquire knowledge, skills and experience by looking at successively more thorough displays of the market. Make a graph and see where doing this alternative crosses over the Greenspoon chart. Why does this happen and what makes it possible? The answer is that different markets are being traded. How will Greenspoon find this out? Steenbarger looked at some of what we display on the ES. Will someone he is trating ever introducing him to the other display components? Why not? this is essentially the snow flake crystal opportunity. Call it the forest opportunity since they parallel each toher. What comes ahead of volume leading price is what is behind the volume and price. We need to acquire the experience of collecting "sufficient" data sets. This is done by becoming an operational trader. knowing how to look and decide. "It is a case of looking in the right place at the right time for the right signals". This is what is being transferred as knowledge, skills and experiences this year in the journals.
Loose translation: Something leading price is something behind the volume and price. Surely, someone can do better than this. Any volunteers?
Interesting post. When I speak of frontrunning, this (above) is what is being front run. Suppose a person were trading after me when he saw what I did. And he absolutely knew I was doing the wrong thing (which jem suggests) as I stayed on the right side of the market all of the time. What would this action that this person did be called? Fading the herd is something that people do. I do not recommend fading me when it means you wind up fading the herd.
Jack, good to see you're paying attention. But, "transfered" should be spelled "transferred" and the plural "experiences" may be incorrect. Still sic!
Jack, consider that different traders have different time frames. What looks like a loser to you may well be a good trade in a different time frame. May I ask where you came up with the notion of "fractals?" It seems that everyone was content, for a long time, to call a 5 min "fractal" a 5 min. chart. Why must you rename things that have perfectly good names?
If he had to read your posts for his next move the market would be closed. I have never seen anyone speak so much and say so little. By the way ... Nestle beats Hershey.