ES/ 1 Point Target, no stops

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by oldtime, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. Cut profits short and let losses run. LOL.

    Your first day in the trade win rate will not be 100%. It might be 85% on the first day.

    You will have to hold overnight to get your win rate up higher.

    So you going to be exposing yourself to a lot of risk for a very small reward.

    Even if its 90% that means one in every 10 trades you will have to hold overnight. and if goes against you even further the next day you will be trapped in the trade praying for it to come back. Not a very pleasant place to be (as every trader knows). The market has a nasty habit for torturing the trader who finds himself in such a situation.
     
    #61     Dec 9, 2012

  2. Doing the opposite might be a winner overall.

    But it would have a very low win rate, much lower than 10%.

    Generally systems that have a low win rate below 30%, are almost impossible for humans to trade from a psychological perspective. The losing streaks are just too long. Even if you got a computer to do it you would just pull the plug after 10,20 or 30+... losers in the row..
     
    #62     Dec 9, 2012
  3. actually, the correct answer is probably neither would work

    the moderator moved this thread to Index Futures, but it's not really about how to trade es

    it has to do with fear and greed

    people are so sure if you trade without stops you will lose it all, yet they treat their profits like if you let them run they always reverse on you

    so they are confident their losses will just go on to infinity
    but have very little confidence in their profits.
     
    #63     Dec 9, 2012
  4. Most people can accept your comment as one that does not recognize what is missing in this system.

    I see the intial entery as happening judiciously by using a big money always published signal before the RTH open.

    The second trade, takes another point by entering with the sentiment of the dominant at that time.

    From abouT 11:00am this approach potentially gives back less than it made between 9:30 and 11:00 am. But since there is no stop (probably because stoops do not function for any account above certain level of capital) there is no loss on the books as yet.

    Within 30 minutes of the pm BO, the approach begins to make money already having recoved the midday unrealized losses because of the hold through.

    Another series of trades about the same number as the am.) occurs until going flat at the end of day (implied margin change bar).

    Net profits are swept daily.

    I added some assumd factors.

    1. Trades begin with the market as dictated by big money pre open announced bias.

    2. money is kept active by using market sentiment to enter a subsequent trade. Why waste the commodity power of money.

    4. Midday lessening of market volatility silences a HOLD's hitting a target for about 1/3 of the day.

    5. regarding a sentiment change between entries is undefined. I would assume an advanced beginner would be aware of how little shadow analysis works on bars; he would act accordingly in CW. Or if a beginning trader were using the RDBMS cases of bars, he would not enter during a wait period and would only enter during tanslaion cases if and when. This is where any person using the approach would have some method for coming off the sidelines. I avoided any "set up" of CW since this is a losing condition as shown by edge based trading studies. See connors approach for example.

    6. for intermediate and experts, probably targets would be set otherwise or combos would be used (Bollinger BO plus any other RDBMS trigger, for example)

    I commented because I was baited....
     
    #64     Dec 9, 2012
  5. Jack,

    No baiting. For once I don't disagree with your assessment. Well done. surf
     
    #65     Dec 9, 2012
  6. Hell has frozen over.
     
    #66     Dec 9, 2012
  7. :D

    Gotta call em as I see em. surf:)
     
    #67     Dec 9, 2012
  8. Okay, but if you and NoDodgy start agreeing, then I'll know the end of the world is at hand.
     
    #68     Dec 9, 2012
  9. JH touched on entries, which are just as key as the stop & target, so without the entry rules we really don't have a complete system to properly evaluate (despite the apparent issues with R:R).

    Also, (may have been mentioned already) - obviously there really is no such thing as "no stops", right? ... as the full account is always the max loss. But since OT sweeps his account after every trade, he limits that loss to a fixed number(in $$'s and points), so the way I see it each trade has the same very specific and deliberate stop.

    "No stops" is a bit misleading in this context of a deliberately fixed account size, imho.
     
    #69     Dec 9, 2012
  10. I believe entries are random for such a system that uses inherent volatility.

    What about, if one can get the vig low enough, one or two tick profit targets with 4X the size of the 1 point system? Just an idea.
     
    #70     Dec 10, 2012