ER2 Leading Indicators?

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by swcom, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. Yes --- this discussion is for trading the futures contract for the russell {er2}.

    to do a "conventional" flip as you mention you would as you say only need one account --- i do not flip this way most of the time.

    i leave the original trade on {that will continue to go underwater} at and beyond the point were i have determined to reverse. so i add a new position that is in a separate account when my determined "reversal" price is met ---- this is the hedge {and this position is usually bigger in size then the original trade position that is still going underwater}.

    my objectives through my "hedge" plan at this point is to work both sides profitable ---- i will ride the new hedge position in one account until i get another trade signal in the direction of my very first trade position. when i get the new signal i will cover the hedge and add a whole new entry into the account that is still underwater from the original trade ---- now i will ride this combined position {part of the position is from my very first trade and the other part is the new entry from my new signal} and scale out as needed to make this combined position profitable.

    this is an intense trade management method that i have grown to love --- it was a bear to handle in the beginning when i went from concept to live action. now this trade management method is my norm so it is no longer difficult for me --- it remains one of the daily challenges that i enjoy while trading.
    #31     Oct 25, 2005

  2. What is the DDE --- how would this work to get the data every one second?

    #32     Oct 25, 2005
  3. Hi Macro,

    I want to make sure that I get this right. Are you saying that you made $1,370 per contract on Monday?

    That seems quite incredible. I think the range for Monday during RTH was 634.40 to 648.80. That's a range of 144 ticks. If you pulled that much out per contract, I am very impressed. My compliments to you.
    #33     Oct 25, 2005

  4. yes sir that is correct --- now you have to remember that at times i was in positions in both directions at the same time that all worked out to be profitable {trading long in one acct and short in another} and this makes a big impact on daily returns. when the russell gets in those range areas at times i will scalp the edges at the same time that i may be still holding other positions looking for continued follow through. I had several trades that day which i let run quite a bit {since i was well ahead for the day i was willing to take on the additional risk} so this made for a very good day. i think my best day in the last few trading days prior to the day you mention was 87 ticks per contract --- my russell method is very tight and i do well with it, but a 137 tick day was well above what i would say is my average day --- that was a very active day with some really good profitable runs.

    futstrdr71 - q - will you be in vegas for the expo?
    #34     Oct 25, 2005
  5. With all due respect macro, when you put on the opposite position you are actually closing out the original trade and if you put on more shares your are opening a new trade.

    'Working' the old failed trade back to profitable is , to put it nicely, a mind game.

    Hard to believe you do this instead of just trading in and out with one account.

    Am I the only one that sees this and gives a sh*t? lol.
    #35     Oct 26, 2005
  6. DDE = Dynamic Data Exchange server (similar to Reuters DDE & BloomBerg) pushed data that eSignal provides to its customers via an Excel Spreadsheet and its excel sigtools.xla add in module...

    google DDE for more info

    You type a simple stock or future, etc formula into the excel spreadsheet cell and it receives every pushed bit of data that the esignal DDE server pushes out into your excel spreadsheet using your typed in formula)s)... Last price, change, float, vol, trade size, etc...

    example formula... winros|last!IBM

    So you can pull in the values (last change and last price) for all 1600 stocks in the Nyse tick and calculate the TICK index yourself - (quite cpu intensive for calculating this specific process)

    We have built our own proprietary Tick for ES, ER, MD, NQ, etc...

    You can also build a Fast Cash, Fast Vol, Fast Average, Fast Ad/Decl, etc.. for all these futures contracts too that updates every second or half second - and then save it to a dBase app and then to a chart app - this versus the 6 second and 15 second CBOE updates on most of their index derivative symbols (tick, trin, etc)




    If You Have The Vision We Have The Code
    #36     Oct 26, 2005
  7. nkhoi

    nkhoi Moderator

    how many have you get stop out then it turn around going 'your way' how many times have you said to yourself if only I can hold a little longer, the counter account allows that little time but you still got to be more right than wrong at the end I think it is a way to change from would've, could've stress to busy juggling many accounts stress.
    #37     Oct 26, 2005

  8. no it is not stressful because if you have price action trading within s/r levels then maintaining the positions is acceptable --- now if we have a breakout from a s/r level then one side needs to be flattened and just ride the hedge. it is not about saying to myself "oh i think i can hold this a bit longer" --- i have clear defined levels for myself in each trade that will trigger the desired action needed for whatever positions i am carrying --- no guessing game actually.

    here is an example from yesterday --- i had 1201.00 and 1204.50 as s/r levels on the upside out of the open. when price traded up to 1201.00 i entered short positions and right away price traded down a few points and i hit targets to cover - fine. then price traded back to 1201 and i was short again -- as price kept trading higher i had my hedge trigger and enter at 1203.00 {buy programs were hitting then also}. so now i am long and short in two separate accounts and price traded up to 1204.75 --- from 10:37 to 10:41 EST i was covering positions in my hedge account at a profit as i was forming a new sell signal {from just after 10:35 EST the buy program activity had ended and the NYSE TICK was down at lower levels --- i was able to then cover the hedge to lock-in some profits}.

    at 10:41:04 EST i had a new full sell signal so my hedge was now completely covered {the last part of the hedge was covered at 1203.50 --- some of the hedge was covered at 1204.00 prior to this from just after 10:37}. at 10:41 i was now flat the hedge and a new full short position was entered to the one i was already holding --- because i have a new short signal now from my es 1500 tick chart indicators. at this point now if price will continue to sell-off {and i have no new long signals} i will cover all remaining positions as needed at the set profit targets that are still parked from the first trade and the new profit targets i add from my new just entered short position.

    by 11:10 EST all of my just entered short positions are covered for a profit with just my runner positions still being held from the new short i had entered at 10:41.

    by 11:19 am i am now covered from all my positions from the very first trade entry when price had come up to 1201.00 which started this whole process --- all i have left on short now is runners that are left on from the 10:41 second short entry {they have the higher cost basis}. by 12:00 i am getting a new weak long signal which i then use as a reason to cover the very last runners i have held since 10:41 --- trade all done and all positions covered profitable.

    there is no "hoping" involved when i trade --- if certain criteria are in affect i will hold positions in both accounts when needed and if other conditions are in place {breakout from one of my s/r levels} then i will flatten and ride only one side of the trade --- price dictates what i do, not my "feelings" at the moment. this can only be done with a defined set of rules and that is how i trade this form of trade management.

    now there is one other thing that i do with the side that is continuing underwater while i am holding a hedge but that is a whole other discussion --- lol :)
    #38     Oct 26, 2005

  9. there is a big difference --- with ALWAYS using a stop or reversing you are locking in "unrealized" losses many times a day that are then forced into a "realized loss" account affect. what i am doing minimizes the actually forcing of all "unrealized" losses into "realized" in accounts from the lack of using a stop or reversing for all of my trades. instead of a stop, i just hedge and then work the underwater side back to profitability if i am within my trade rules criteria to do so -- if not then one side is flattened and the new hedge side is now the only trade active.

    i understand this is not the norm for trade management as written in numerous books {and how much money a day does that author make from trading??? :D } so i can understand your questions. but from a logic standpoint i just kept thinking what is a better way to handle trades everyday {especially those non-trending range days} so that i do not keep locking in "unrealized" losses to then have price come right back to where my profit targets were at. as a result of what i do now, i have a much higher win/loss ratio on a daily averaged basis as the only times i have a true "realized" loss are the times when i actually do a full tilt reversal {one acct flattened at a loss and the hedge then in affect}. when you cut-out over 50% of your normal losing trades on a daily averaged basis through using a hedge method, instead of a stop or always reversing, you will have a significant change to your daily averaged profit returns.

    this is the way i want to trade so this is what works for me, and it only works because of the rules i have formed and adhere to.
    #39     Oct 26, 2005
  10. Hi Macro,

    No, I won't be in Vegas. I go to the Expo in Chicago because my office is there. I really don't see the point of going to more than one Expo. It is nice to play with some software, collect a bunch of merchandise and listen to salesmen go on and on. I can only handle that once a year though. :D
    #40     Oct 26, 2005