Equity traders have proven themseleves on ET, futures traders remain a mystery

Discussion in 'Trading' started by ChkitOut, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. Why have equity traders consistently posted on the P/L thread and shown that yes, it can be done.

    Ericp, Lescor, Patrickq, szezen, and others... have consistently posted to show the ebb and flow of equity trading.

    No ES, YM, or NQ trader has ever consistently posted p/l.

    I'm starting to thing that futures traders are similar to sasquatch or abominable snowman sightings. Or maybe nessie, the loch ness monster.
  2. Maybe is not that important for a futures trader to boast about his winning/losses
  3. Thats just more alien sighting speak.
  4. insanely hard to make money on the S&P500 , DJIA futures.

    reason: too much competition.
  5. Most consistant money, whether people like to admit it or not, is based on In-Efficiencies.

    Whethere its OPGs or MOC's. or pairs, or momentum, etc

    That being said, the futures market is probably THE MOST EFFIECIENT MARKET that exists..hence leaving hte opportunity for consistant exploitation of the "inefficiency" to barely if not exist at all

    I literally can name over 100 profitable traders that I know PERSONALLY...yet can name 1 consistanly profitable futures trader...and his swings are beyond what I could ever handle

    Even one of the best daytraders I know ...a consistant 7 figure guy tried trading futures for 2 months, and gave up saying they are too fast and confusing
  6. 2 months of trading futures is not nearly long enough to learn how to make consistent money, if you said gave up after 2 years I can understand. But 2 months, you can't master anything worthwhile in 2 months :)
  7. Good luck with your search ChkitOut.

  8. <i>"Even one of the best daytraders I know ...a consistant 7 figure guy tried trading futures for 2 months, and gave up saying they are too fast and confusing"</i>

    emini index futures trading is based on the stock market, but is very different from trading individual stocks. A few of the key differences:

    Scanning for stocks lets a trader apply any high-odds edge to key setups frequently as scans turn up candidates. Emini markets are highly to completely correlated... you cannot find a constant "edge" on demand. Emini trading requires greater amounts of patience to wait for key moments in the market to appear.

    Index futures are shoved heavily by program trading, which is somewhat random. That's the greater speed and noise in futures versus stocks. Futures aren't "efficient"... they are noisy due to the homogonous blend of varied stocks and the program arbs that push them around between directional moves.

    A quiet day like yesterday's trend move minus the brutal blackbox stuff is very methodical. Unfortunately, we battle the bots far more days than not. Learning to work in front of them or around them is a skill which most stock traders needn't worry about. Individual stocks show cleaner price patterns = movement during consolidations before directional swings break out.

    IMO to succeed long-term in futures trading you need a risk/reward ratio of at least 2/1 and preferably 3/1 or 5/1 profit to loss. How is that possible? -$100 or -$150 initial stops in ES seeking +$300 to +$500 per contract gains. How is that consistently possible? Heck, those swings are dime a dozen every day in the ES... often much more. Only need a win ratio of 40% ~ 50% while keeping that 3/1 or greater balance and you're successful.

    Scalping eminis is an illusion. Feels good, for awhile. Gives positive biofeedback for awhile. Same with using inverted risk/reward, averaging down = fading trends, etc. Feels good for awhile. Until one day when it doesn't and then game over.

    Swing trading eminis either purely intraday or across sessions works. Trying to impose the will of human nature, i.e. scalping, averaging down = fading trends or using inverted risk-reward ratios is what makes us feel good. They are logical choices. They also fail miserably every time, which is precisely why most emini futures traders fail overall.

    Learn to do the opposite of what naturally feels good, and you will likewise experience the opposite of what a majority endures.

  9. All well and good.
    But the OP wants a trophy to take home to Mum.

    Why don't you offer yourself.

  10. TraDaToR


    Heavyhitter78, AustinP, Anekdoten( I believe him ).

    There was also Chauncey1 that posted for a while in 2007 with impressive numbers and spooztop making 1 to 3 K per day on ES with great consistency...

    Currently, F d'Anconia seems good too.

    I agree that equity guys have a better regularity though.
    #10     Nov 27, 2008