Please spell the phrase "Red Herring" correctly the next time, before you go off making asinine remarks about the manipulation of California's power grid. It might help give you some credibility!
i woulda done the same exact thing them enron lads did...especially the bragging. markets are markets.
You know, anyone that finds what the Enron traders did to CA offensive, has not read the book "F.I.A.S.C.O." by Frank Partnoy about the derivatives salesmen at Morgan Stanley in the early 90's. Seriously, they make Enron look like a bunch charity givers. Seriously, read that book then come back on here and talk about the Enron traders. There is no comparison.
Oh so instead of saying Morgan Stanley should be denounced also and that the law is protecting them, you pretend that it is excusable ? Then each time someone commits a murder it suffices to say "oh you find that offending there has been much worst case ?!!!" So let's gov and corporates continue to steal it doesn't matter when people will retire with 50% or even already 0 for some already ! The amount stolen must be at the level of the debts. What is funny is that they stole the money once and that they will steal the money a second time since they will ask interest/taxes on the debts haha ! Why pretend that politicians act as crooks : they are just the mirror of who are complacent or even complice voters for them like you ! I begin to realise that People are really sheeps although I have fighted this thought for years !
Harry, let me get this straight. Are you ready to march down to the Merc and arrest all the traders who are responsible for driving up the price of milk and cattle? Are you going to arrest the traders at the CBOT for driving up the prices of soybeans, corn and rice? Hey man, the American public is getting screwed here and these evil traders are profiting from these higher food prices. Are you ready to arrest guys at the NYmex for driving up natural gas and crude oil futures? What about the guys that profited from the crash in 87? They all made out quite well while Joe sixpack was losing his life savings. Those evil traders. I don't get it man. Doesn't every trader take advantage of these events. Are you telling if a company came out with bad earnings you would not short the stock because all the stockholders would lose money if you drove the price into the ground? Wake up man, Enron did not cause the energy shortage in CA, they simply used that event to profit from it like they are paid to do. If I was an energy trader, I would have been driving the price up to the moon. And I would have enjoyed it.
Most floor traders and upstairs traders that trade corn, soybeans, milk, unleaded gasoline, natural gas, crude oil, etc do not have the means to DELIVER the actual commodity. I believe that ENRON did. That's the difference, and I'm amazed that some of you can't see this very significant difference. But then again, this is ET! :eek:
Waggie, I hate to break this to you, I actually had friends that worked at Enron and traded there. So maybe I know more about this then you do. Most of these guys were really really smart kids out of college with quant backgrounds with 150 IQ's that worked on a trading desk. These kids designed very elaborate and complicated derivative models and their job, like at any other derivative desk, was to make money. They all got a nice salary, and a bonus that was tied to performance. These guys were smart, trust me. One of my friends that went to work there got offers from D.E shaw, Susquehanna, and SAC. He turned them all down to work with some of the brightest derivatives guys on the streets, the boys at Enron. You need to get away from this fantasy world where the Evil Enron is like Dr. Evil from Austin Powers holding the world hostage unless he gets 100 gazzilion dollars. I'm afraid reality is not quite as sexy, or funny, as that. Rather Waggie, Enron had thousands of traders, many of who never spoke to the other various departments and were all working on different projects. The fact of the matter is, Waggie they were good traders. They made a lot of money. And guess what, all those guys are now working for Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Susquehanna, and various hedge funds now. If you were trading at Enron, you would have done the same thing. Don't politicize this Waggie, this is about trading. And these guys make money. You know Waggie, not everybody tick f*cks the 10 year note for a living.