eminidaytrading - Open House discussion

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by ebner, Jul 17, 2002.

  1. ebner


    Starting this thread for those who took 2 days Open House on eminidaytrading Jul 16-17. Would like to discuss their services and hear opinions.

    Will post my thoughts after close today.
  2. ebner


    A few notes after attending the Open House eminidaytrading were hosting for two days on July 16-17. Actually, I’ve visited previous Open House promotion event as well (last month), so – this is a summary of the two.

    My intentions are:
    a) to provide a more or less unbiased view
    b) to attract other comments/views
    So, feel free to post your opinions.

    First of all, for those who didn’t have a chance yet to check their site, it probably is a good idea to do so. There you will find their trading approach briefly described, as well as track record. Design and navigation is good and smooth. Track records easy to figure out, but they are posted in GIF format which is odd. No idea why ain’t they use some sort of table or spreadsheet. Well, anyone who has enough interest (like myself), can spend some time punching those numbers into Excel and analyze them.

    Posted track record is very solid and attractive, only concern is how close can one replicate it (my thoughts about this will follow below). They are systematic traders, adhering to a set of rules and discipline, which is good. Plan a trade and trade a plan. Risk management is solid as well, they don’t hesitate to lighten up on a losing trade or punt it altogether.

    With all these strengths mentioned, here come weaknesses. What they are offering is essentially a “black box” with some human interface, they are extremely reluctant to reveal any details on method they are using to determine entries and exits. Subscribers are supposed to focus on just execution of trades on their real time signals. There’s no problem with this and they probably have their reasons, but have to keep in mind – trading blindly relying on someone’s decisions won’t make one a good trader with long independent career. Meanwhile, learning risk control, trade management and discipline with them is an excellent opportunity.

    So, big question is are those track records for real? Well, yes and no. Track records reflect what they are (or could be) trading on their own account and it’s pretty credible considering their expertise, but for subscribers it’s a challenge to get in and out as good as the track record goes. Entries posted as ranges (sometimes 4-5 points wide, sometimes 2-3) and it’s up to you to figure out whether you should jump in once the market touched posted range, or to wait for better fill. Despite their staff insisting entry is irrelevant as long as you are consistent, it really matters when it comes to risk management. Stops usually are pretty wide initially (they tighten stop as the trade progresses) – sometimes 10 NQ points or more. One trade that stops out from scratch (they do have those occasionally) can eat into profits pretty bad if you jumped in too soon and significantly skews performance. Posted records usually reflect either best possible fill within a range (when market just briefly touched it) or mid range. Taking June records as an example, with an average slippage of 0.75 per contract per side one could expect performance to be roughly 40% lower compared to the one posted. Have to keep in mind too that posted results do not include broker commissions, which eats approximately 10% of profits. Not a lot, but everything counts when it comes to bottom line.

    Well, if you are an experienced trader and good at tape reading, you’ll do fine, but then again – I don’t know any serious traders who go by blindly following others’ advice without knowing specifics of the method.

    I’m not discussing their pricing in detail here, although my impression was it lacks flexibility and the word is they are raising rates September 1 by 50% to 100% depending on time frame.

    To sum up – I do think it’s a fair service worth looking at if you want to learn discipline or need outside psychological support, and the price tag doesn't tick you off, but it won’t help to make one an independent trader.
  3. muzz22


    Just a quick reply, you can not assume that their service "won’t help to make one an independent trader". Fact is that even thou they are not an educational service they constantly share with all members what to look for and what indicators to follow to become a better trader. A lot of these indicators they follow have taken years of fine-tuning to give the best possible results and i was shocked that they have shared some of them with thier members.
    I have been a paying member for over 6 months and have trialed alot of advisory services and emini are by far the best. Worth every cent.
    Another thing in regards to matching thier trading record i can tell you that it is not hard to match and even get better fills then the posted results.