El Salvador hopes to becomes the world’s first country to adopt bitcoin as legal tender

Discussion in 'Crypto Assets' started by johnarb, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Sig

    Sig

    That makes my point even more clearly! And let's be clear what my point is. It is completely impractical for regular folks and regular companies to use a currency that buys 50% more one month than it did the month before, then 50% less six months later, then 40% more a few months after that.

    From the consumer perspective, imagine if the price of the car you wanted was 20,000 of whatever currency unit you choose one day and a month later it's 40,000 units, maybe to go back to 15,000 units next month, who knows. Meanwhile you're getting paid bimonthly on a salary that either has to radically change every two weeks and even intra-week to keep you whole or screw you depending on how the the currency changes.

    Now think from the car manufacturer perspective. They have to source materials months in advance and pay for them, and pay wages weekly or bimonthly, but the price they get paid for their car will fall by 50% over the course of a few months, then go up by 50%, then fall 40%. Sometimes multiple percent per day!

    You're simply being hopelessly naïve if you think this works in any way, shape, or form. Start a business, hire a few dozen employees, source some raw materials and sell to some customers. Then come back and tell us how this works. Until then, good luck with the rest of high school and I hope you are able to study some economics and business in college as I'm sure you'll find it both enlightening and interesting.
     
    #41     Jun 7, 2021
  2. Sprout

    Sprout

    You certainly have valid points.

    An alternative perspective;

    5889D778-4FF7-462F-BB12-43ABD66C85C3.jpeg

    Crypto is focusing the world and educating generations on fiat monetary policy/tokenomics and DAO’s.

    However it all shakes out will be a good thing for humanity.
     
    #42     Jun 7, 2021
    johnarb likes this.
  3. Trader Curt

    Trader Curt

    Yes I believe a currency that wildly fluctuates with volatility is an excellent asset to to put your money in for FIAT currency inflation, yes. And the reason I do is because a smart investor will look at the full lifetime chart of an asset for a wise decision, a timid foolish ignorant trader will be scared of the short term volatility.
     
    #43     Jun 7, 2021
    johnarb likes this.
  4. Overnight

    Overnight

    Sorry, at the time I was thinking of this...



    And then remembering how MS-13 gangs from El Salvador are destroying certain neighborhoods, including the one I grew up in, where last year they tortured and killed a teen there who was not even a member of a gang. Case of mistaken identity.

    As for Muslims? Well...


     
    #44     Jun 7, 2021
  5. johnarb

    johnarb

    I'm not a fan of bitcoin as a currency. I see bitcoin as a SoV, an investment asset, as a savings account

    My point was to keep you honest

    You've been here many years and you're still here trying to lecture me and others on why bitcoin cannot work, but newsflash, it has already worked for me and others

    Tremendously

    If I listened to you, I would not have as much net worth as I do now

    What investment were you recommending for us to invest in? Nothing

    Bitcoin can be spent on a Layer 2 system, Visa, PayPal, Mastercard, Strike, which means only the participants who wish to be exposed to the volatility, down or up, can choose to do so

    No one who put their savings into bitcoin and held for 3 years or longer, lost value. No one

    it does not matter if it's $, Euro, Yen, or Turish Lira

    You're here criticizing all the ways El Salvador will fail, but you do not have a solution for them. By the way, El Salvador is allowing bitcoin to be used as legal tender but a merchant or a consumer can still use US $ if they prefer

    Some videos for you from others that can explain it better







     
    #45     Jun 7, 2021
  6. Sig

    Sig

    We're not talking about what you think about your personal asset allocation as an investor. The subject of this thread is an article about an entire country, El Salvador, switching to Bitcoin as their national currency and I specifically only referred to the assertion that this is "protecting developing economies from potential shocks of fiat currency inflation". I know you're a fanboy and can't help but see everything as an attack on your precious that you have to defend, but seriously, this is ridiculous. I simply stated that it was absurd to claim that El Salvador switching to Bitcoin as a national currency would protect their developing economy from shocks of fiat currency inflation and explained why. You seem pathologically unable to actually respond to my actual point in any way, just attack to protect your precious. What is it with you?
     
    #46     Jun 7, 2021
  7. Trader Curt

    Trader Curt

    Ok, and I would probably answer the same way. Because a developing economy can mean anything. A country, a city, a person. Maybe you should have clarified better your question better. But the answer from me will be the same no matter what you're talking about anyway. Do you really think just because you are talking about a whole country it's going to be a different answer from a whole city? I don't have time for this...

    And I am not a Bitcoin fanboy, I just recognize it as a store of value.
     
    #47     Jun 7, 2021
    johnarb likes this.
  8. Sig

    Sig

    So you'd like to ignore the entire point of my post that you're responding to about the idiocy of a statement saying that switching to bitcoin as a national currency for El Salvador, which happens to be the topic of this thread, would work for "protecting developing economies from potential shocks of fiat currency inflation". And instead tell me I'm wrong because Bitcoin is great for investing for a first world investor? After first trying to claim that because bitcoin went up before it went down my point was invalid? That's not how normal adults carry on conversations, just as an FYI.

    As for this concept that a bad idea is better than doing anything, it's not for nothing that one of the basic concepts of the Hippocratic Oath is to First, do no harm. It's makes zero sense to say that I'm not allowed to point out how damaging and idiotic a potential path is for El Salvador's economy because I don't point out a better path. Especially when I explicitly did point out that they are much better remaining on the dollar as they currently are. In general if you're going to suggest disrupting something as fundamental as the economy that literally millions of lives depend on from the status quo, then the onus is on you to prove it won't have horrible consequences, not the other way around!

    And if you're going to relitigate every posting I've made, then please, point out to me where I said that you wouldn't make money if you invested in bitcoin three years ago? I've pointed out that bitcoin has a massive energy footprint the fanboys ignore that makes it untenable as the world currency you envision. I've pointed out that there are risks in what fanboys call "arbitrage" in crypto that they don't grasp or acknowledge. I've pointed out that crypto has a long and storied history which continues to this day of massive theft at the exchange level that doesn't exist in any regulated market. You've decided these facts are an attack on you rather than points that you could actually incorporate into your thought process and use. Your loss. And you've decided internally to change what I actually said into something completely different, for reasons only known to you.

    If there's anything I've said about crypto that is fundamentally been shown to be wrong I'd love to see the details; I actually like to learn from my mistakes. If you're not willing to provide that, then you're going to need to lay off the whole You're All Wrong and If You Don't Show Me How to Trade You Have to Shut Up memes you've got going here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
    #48     Jun 7, 2021
  9. johnarb

    johnarb

    I felt that you've painted bitcoin and cryptos in a negative light in the past and you've been here before my first post on the Cryptocurrencies forum so you've seen quite a bit of development and adoption

    I did answer you on the subject of El Salvador accepting it as legal tender

    However, the answer is best provided by the videos, not by me

    Here are my words, in the first 10 years of my employment, I took what I considered my first real vacation and when I went back to work, I was depressed

    I felt that there must be something wrong with a current system that we live in and that having to work for another 30-40 years at 40 hours or more per week seemed like a prison sentence. Add the commute time!

    Then I would retire and if I'm healthy enough, I get maybe another 10-20 years to enjoy my "freedom"

    It is something most people have to accept but what if the inflationary fiat monetary system has exacerbated it?

    When a person works he gets paid with a currency (money) to store his efforts, but when the central banks debase the value, the person's efforts are evaporating unbeknownst to him/her

    El Salvador is choosing bitcoin as another vehicle to store their work efforts to protect themselves from the ECB or US CB printing and fiat debasement

    If you can, watch the 2nd (Twitter) video and the 3rd video (Jeff Booth)

    The 3rd video (Jeff Booth) explains how the inflationary fiat monetary system has created a worldwide workforce of "slaves"

    You might come back and tell us you bought bitcoin after watching that video :D
     
    #49     Jun 7, 2021
  10. Sig

    Sig

    I worked for a wage for 20 years. I stored my some of my savings in bonds, which always provided a return greater than inflation. I stored the rest in stocks and real estate, which provided a return significantly greater than inflation. Then I took that savings and used it to start a company, which has provided a return far in excess of inflation. I could easily retire before 50 and want for nothing for the rest of my life, which in my family averages another 40 years. No Bitcoin required.

    Bitcoin in no panacea for storing value to avoid inflation and there are dozens of time proven ways that already exist to do exactly that. As I've said before, Bitcoin to protect against inflation is a solution in search of a problem. As I've also said before blockchain has value in some areas, its just that its fanboys seem unaware that in specific areas like moving currency and protecting against inflation there are plenty of other solutions that work equally well or better with none of the downsides.

    Jeff Booth is a great sales guy, hence his success as an entrepreneur. He's clearly never taken a macro class and knows nothing of macro economics, but again he's great at selling a book about why deflation is a good thing with absolutely no rigor whatsoever behind it. He does a great job implementing a sales technique that is probably as old as history. It basically goes like this. Imagine you walk into a Chevy dealer wanting to buy a 5 year old Impala to be a reliable commuter for your 20 mile daily drive to work. You end up walking out with a Corvette. How did that happen?

    First, list a bunch of things that no one likes. Do you like it when your car won't start in the morning? No! How about when it needs expensive repairs? No! What about when it smells bad after you leave fast food in it overnight? Hell no.

    Then he switches to his product and describes how it doesn't have most of those things. This brand new Corvette will start up every time the first time (forget to mention so will the Impala). It can be repaired at any Chevy dealer (as can the Impala). And it looks really cool and the chicks will dig it and it does 0-60 in 3 seconds and.... lists a bunch of things irrelevant to what you wanted which was a reliable car at a decent price to commute with. And forgets to mention the handful of things that the Corvette actually doesn't fix, like smelling bad after the fast food. Or the fact that it costs 10 times more and solves a bunch of "problems" you either never had or could have easily been solved by your initial choice.

    And you walk away thinking how much everything sucked then Mr. Corvette man made it better and what a champ you are for buying the Corvette. And woe to the guy who points out you were kind of suckered into it, because no-one likes to think of themselves as a sucker.

    Any time you find yourself thinking "yeah, that does suck" when someone is trying to convince you of something, stop for a minute and realize the technique they're pulling on you. Then apply that doubly when a sales guy tries to convince you of something that runs contrary to basic economics, by telling you its basically all a conspiracy of the world's economists, bankers, and governments.

    So no, I wasn't convinced. The guy left me thinking how sad it was he decided he needed to troll gullible folks with faux theories that don't hold up to even the most basic examination instead of sticking to starting and running companies, which provides a lot more value in the world. And sad that there's an hour of my life I'm never getting back.
     
    #50     Jun 7, 2021