Used the Echo's "Raven" exit feature for my opening orders today. The facts: 17 fills 14 winners 3 losers, (gonna lose MO next time he bites me) I brought my envelopes in somewhat today for more fills. I have never had remotely that many fills with opening orders before. Without the "Raven" auto exit software, I would have been utterly overwhelmed. The little "ding" (for fills) just kept ringing and ringing. As it was, I was catatonic, frozen, but it didn't matter. "Raven" handled the bulk of the exits. I was mostly hiding under the desk. Note that the decision on where to set my entry parameters (I do it through a spreadsheet, not through "Orca") and my "Raven" exit rules IS ALL MINE. And I know for a fact that they differ quite a bit from some of the other guys at Echo. The arguement that automation is just another tool is a correct one. If I make a wrong judgement about my entry criteria, or which stocks to take out or leave in, even "Raven" won't save me, although it quite likely would lessen the damage. We will see if the tea leaves and goat's entrails that I am consulting for my rules hold up over the next few days. In any case, I would not, could not, do the numbers of OO that I am able to with "Raven" My $.02 worth.
Well I've been with Echo for about 18 months now. My observations follow: -The firm basically does what it says. You get leverage, you get a trade desk, you put up money to get these. -They give you a "going" rate to trade. I paid almost a penny a share for the first year, then they called me and dropped my rate. I don't even think they knew the volume I was trading as surprise registered when I mentioned millions/month. -You can go get "mentored." This happens on your time, on your dime (hotels, etc.), and any lost opportunities you may suffer while you observe someone else trade is your problem. Clearly the firm is not in the charity business. Since they get no % of profits they are in the churn business. I've been treated fairly while here, but in no way offered any edge. The rates I paid could have been lower, but I didn't try hard enough or know enough to get them lowered. The mentoring is mass-produced, as it must be when there is dilution (see Nitro's post). I spent good money and time to go to Chicago and see Ed Winters trade and he is a very nice guy who tries hard and knows a shitload about the markets, but I had my worst month ever while there which was my fault. I wasn't offered any automation software, even tho I wrote to Sterling to request some features related to scanning. The first I heard about Predator Pro it was already posted here. I was offered a chance to be mentored again by Vito, but it came with a contract (non-competing only). I declined. Basically nothing in the market is free and since Echo doesn't get any of my profits I'm on my own, even though I generate a large amount of commish. Their is simply no vested interest for these firms to provide anything beyong the bare minimum. Now it appears Vito is trying to bring some value-added products to the table, either to generate a competitive edge or simply to boost revenues. Nothing offered is free. Predator Pro is 200 bucks/month. Likewise our newsfeed is extra, openbook is extra, and echopoint is extra. I've considered leaving but so far I like being with a firm that at least seems to be king turd on crap island, until I'm proven wrong. Ultimately capitalism is a pimp and whore system. I'm the firms whore and I attempt to make less informed traders my little whores. For now I'm happy being with a pimp who kisses me while fu**ing me.
I've taken a break from Echo to concentrate on E-mini's but will be continuing equities in September. I'm looking forward to checking out this new stuff..but even more excited about the EchoPro updates. Happy Trading.
I doubt Echo is stealing strategies. If they do strategy mine their top traders, they aren't sharing what they glean with the likes of me but are keeping/trading it among the partners in the firm. Automation isn't so much about a specific strategy. What works now is always changing for the most part. Rather it is about expanding your number of trades manageable for a given strategy, and it is largely about forced discipline. It appears to me that Predator Pro as offered to average joe type traders at Echo encompasses no "stolen" strategies.
I am assuming this software works for remote Echo traders as well? Also, looking at the "tiger" part...does that have the functionality to replace a product like FirstAlert? In otherwords, can that scan the entire stock universe...for practially anything you can dream up...in the manner that FirstAlert can? thanks, cas
remote is no problem......i know it is available for echopro user's....not sure about echotraderII yet.....currently i am using the "tiger" program and have duplicated a filter i used on f/a. as far as the universe of stocks, i trade listed only and if i am not mistaken i'm currently scanning close to half of the nyse. i think they have pre-weeded out certain stocks based on their own criteria. so far it has worked well.