By the time I left Rhema Bible Fellowship, I could say with confidence very few among them had more familiarity with its contents than I. Having had a private chat with the replacement pastor (the first pastor fell to marital infidelity) I could tell he was a walking talking rolodex of verses, intimidating for sure. One day, after two years, I showed up to Sunday services without my leather bound new king James version, and sat third row front. First time I didn't have it. That day, an itinerant speaker from a missionary church in Brazil was bragging about how their entire congregation shows up with their Bibles each service. "In fact", he said, "if you don't come to church with your Bible, you probably aren't a Christian". Wow. I stood up, shuffled out to the center isle, turned my back, walked out, and never looked back. As I was turning the corner on my way out I could hear him talking about me at the podium. "What scared him?" is all I can remember but he said more. Fast forward 28 years, I hadn't owned a bible in decades, but a hot shot christian was asserting some saying from the bible, and I said, "so says Paul". But he said, no, Jesus said that. This went back and forth until someone proposed a bet of $50, which I took. We walked to the nearest library to find it in the bible, sure enough, Paul said it. At first he tried to argue that it's all the same, the word of god, no matter Paul or Jesus says it. But I reminded him that is not what the bet was about. To his credit, he made payments on the bet over time till it was paid off, and we became somewhat friends. Sometimes when I write, I know the bible contains what I'm saying, but I don't quote it, or mention the fact. Still, christians here claim to be unable to understand what I'm saying, as if i speak a foreign language.
The reason you could not remember anything after that point was because you went all Freebird on their ass.
I was a theist for over 40 years, taught VBS & Childrens bible study. I was a devout as they come. It was during one of those bible classes that a 10 year old girl asked me a question that sort made me sit up and think. She asked 2 questions really. Fisrt, she asked why didn't god know that satan was going to turn on him (paraphrased) and second, did he know that he was going to have to drown all those people and children and babies. I remember giving her some crap answer like you just have to trust and have faith that he knows what he's doing but it shook me deep down. That's when I started listening to counter arguments. It still took me several years before I could finally admit to myself that I no longer believed. It was like a huge weight had been lifted from me. I'm so at peace with my life now and I now see all the harm religion has done to mankind and continues to do. While reading the bible may make you a theist, comprehending what you are reading will make you an atheist.
I remember my dear older brother making one last ditch attempt to win me back into the Bible fold by bringing me to a Christian rock concert. It was a lot like this video as I recall and way too loud. My brother had calculated that this would fly because I had been a musician and had played rock guitar and even had my chance at 15 minutes of fame. But it backfired. Way too loud, even for me, but worst of all, it reeked of pandering. I walked out. I actually got upset, not as upset as the Kingsman, but I harangued my brother so hard for doing that he has never dared speak to me about the subject ever again.
Once, i let two Christians wearing suits downtown kidnap me back to their church, just in time for their services to start on a Saturday, or Sunday night. This turned out to be Rhema Bible Fellowship on steroids (some Temple this or that) . All the men, and all the boys had suits and ties. All the women and girls had dresses and hair in buns. Per my expectations they lead off with the musicians, and admittedly, some fine musicianship. As expected, the music starts slow and low and builds up. But then it started going off the charts, even for an old holy roller. The pastor starts competing with the musicians for decibel supremacy, shouting over the band into the amplified acoustic system. The objective is to bring it back down where the pastor can then leverage the emotional field toward his agenda. But it got so out of control loud I finally decided to put both hands over my ears until the decibels came down to tolerable. After the torture was over, I let them take me to a big room where they do a post service pot luck, or some kind of food party for a minimal fee to cover the cost. They paid for me and we chatted, giving them a chance to make their case. Nice people, but alas, they do not really have ears to hear what I have to say. I just remember thinking how insulting was the pastor, in his orations, toward any god that is actually good, and how against Christ they really were, but oblivious to the fact. So is it possible groups like this can be good for culture and community? Their behaviour is predictable, generally law abiding and hard working, generally not dependant on government handout. So I think we are better off with them than with politicos who encourage groups like antifa and BLM, and the neo-DA's who have penetrated public office to let criminals loose, and lock up self defending bodega clerks. But this whole thing about killing ones own divine and perfect son to let sinners loose in the kingdom is really repugnant. I saw it as a business...for the pastor.
Of course God knew that Satan would turn on Him. He knows all things from eternity past to eternity future. You sound as though you are implying that for God to create a being who He knew would rebel against Him would mean that God was guilty of that creature's rebellion. However, God has revealed Himself to be One who is so Holy and Righteous and Good, that He has never done anything that is wrong. The Bible is very clear in making the case that Satan's rebellion was Satan's own doing, and also that we all are sinners by choice. It isn't what we want to hear. People want to cast blame for their bad behaviors or they want to excuse their bad behaviors by calling what is bad, good. A lot of people get hung up on the way that God has left us alone to go our own ways, but that is what we choose to want. If that is not the case, if you don't want your own way, but to be reconciled to God, then quick, repent of your sin and turn to God through what Jesus has done on your behalf: At a great cost to Himself He provided the way of salvation so that whoever will repent and call upon Him through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus (the Son of God--and equal with the Father) to be their sin bearer, will be forgiven and delivered from judgment. God allows people to make choices that He will one day hold them accountable for, yet it is His desire to restore us to Himself, not send us to hell. He must not allow sin to go unpunished because He is a just judge, but when one turns to God acknowledging His rightful position as Creator, God, Ruler of all, and Master, and comes to God on God's terms, which is through Jesus, then one receives eternal pardon and out of gratefulness to God tries to live a life that pleases God. God doesn't want people to sin, yet He made us capable of choosing to go our own way, apart from Him. It is not wrong on God's part to let us freely choose to depart. "The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching." Former UCLA basketball coach John Wooden If God stood over each of us with a rod and list of rules to make sure we obey Him, then there would not really be any choice on our part. We would obey but it would not be out of love or relationship, but out of fear and obedience. It would not be from a grateful heart or from love, which is what God desires. God created people to be able to make decisions and He created us with the intention that we would use our ability to think for good purposes and in fellowship with Himself. He did give our first parents the option to choose to depart from Him, and that is what they chose to do. They made the choice, God didn't. We each choose to delight in sin because we lost our original innocence through Adam and Eve. Like I said earlier, if you don't like sinning and don't want to be judged for your sin, then come to God through Jesus. He is entirely good and loving and desires to grant mercy, but after death His judgment will be without mercy. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight; everything is uncovered and exposed before the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:13 People don't come to God for salvation because they want to continue in their own ways: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” John 3:14-21