How many wars? How many regimes? So far, I count one. I seem to recall that the action was authorized by Congress. And maybe you can remind us how actually knowing something about the oil industry disqualified anyone from being able to address the situation in the Middle East. It certainly doesn't seem to have disqualified countries with major oil interests in Iraq from trying to claim moral authority while opposing the US. By whose reckoning? Your proposal is that national security issues must not be acted upon until and unless the states have their fiscal situations handled? Or do you propose federal intervention? At what point in the state budgetary processes? With what degree of control over spending decisions - or do you propose that the citizens of Kansas and South Carolina and the other states, acting through the federal government, write Gray Davis a blank check? I think to achieve the effect you're aiming for, you need to push your prejudice even further: How about "Christer kooks speaking in tongues"? Maybe you believe that only secular humanists should be allowed to serve in government? Or that the only allowable expressions of religious belief in political circles should be mock Wicca sacrifices at peace demonstrations? Just one nude statue - but, ok, it was a stupid priggish gesture - he thought it was a distraction. Probably not the chief threat to the republic and your freedom to consume hardcore pornography available from your favorite video store. so over the top, so extreme, that it's been practiced only by Bush... and probably every other President of the United States, as well as the vast majority of Presidential candidates and other politicians and orators in Western culture for a millenium or two. Other people go out of their way to find reasons to believe they're just so much smarter than all those dumb normal folk... It's laughable.
I would like to thank Harrytrader for his lesson in our history. Harry, we knew about old Prescott Bush. In our country, the sons are not responsible for the sins of the fathers. We also know that we were established as a republic and not a true democracy. But if you ever decide to come here and study and become a citizen of our great nation, you will understand that we have always been a work in progress. But thanks for the info. It shows you are at least interested. Maybe you could do us all a real favor and read out loud the preamble to our Constitution to MSFE/Wild and give him a clue as to our intent as a nation. Maybe it will ward him off like garlic does a vampire. Kymer and Bung slugged it out about taxes. Both made their points strong and weak. MSFE/Wild doesn't know that we Americans can agree to disagree. Optional and I had a miscommunication. Tomorrow we will be joking about it in the chatroom. Because we too are what MSFE resents or is jealous of. Free Americans. Max and I will continue to debate whether a lie under oath is a more egregious lie than one told in a barroom. But here again, we can disagree and be on the same side of what is important. American Freedom. Michelle started this thread with a tongue in cheek "Resume" of Dubya's. And Archangel countered with a scathing synopsis of the Clinton administration as well as old Bill himself. But tomorrow, Dubya will still be the President, and Clinton will still be getting 200K to make a speech, and MSFE will still be a sad and pathetic misanthrope. Max suggested consulting with my wife about perjury because she is an attorney. Well she is not a litigator because she wanted no part of the area of law that is so pervaded by lies. Others do it, and it is an imperfect system because people do lie under oath. My dog lies to me in his way if there's a Milk Bone in it for him. Sad but true. I read through this entire thread. It is amazing and I suppose healthy that people get so passionate about politics. We should all stay aware. We can't all directly participate, but we can at least express our opinions and argue our differences and not worry about saying the wrong thing and being imprisoned for our thoughts, like in the Utopian vision of how the world should be according to MSFE/Wild. In a hundred years, or 3 or 5 or a thousand, America will still be around and the model for the world of tomorrow. Because we evolve and adapt. Unlike the regimes that MSFE/Wild admires. Gone are the Third Reich, gone is Stalin, Saddam, Mussolini, and all the other idols of those who hate America like MSFE/Wild. Harrytrader; come visit. See what a country that does not live in the past is about. Joe Kennedy's sins don't bother us. As well documented as they are, we elected 3 of his sons to serve in public office. Prescott Bush....we got a son AND a grandson out of the old son of a bitch. Do we hold what the old man did against Dubya? Hell, he wasn't even born. How much blame can we put on him? And George Sr.? He went and fought Hitler's army himself. We go forward here. We have no monarchs. We have only freedom and opportunity. And this is what makes MSFE/Wild so resentful and jealous and full of rage. Because guys like him can't stand that guys like us can say and do whatever we want as long as we do not harm one another. And when someone from some desolate and miserable place like MSFE or Bin Laden come along and try and harm us, we band together and fight them off. And rid the world of them. Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, all of us. Because we have things in common that bind us together very strongly. Freedom and pride in our country and the ideals we stand for. So while MSFE enjoys what he thinks is his instigation, in reality his very few words that are not cut and pasted from sources he scours to find fault with the US mean nothing to us. Nor do they even serve the purpose he pursues. Which is to be a nuisance. He is just a sad case and not even worthy of our antagonism. Hell, Hitler at least could write a book. Castro can speak for hours on end. But MSFE/Wild can barely put a sentence together. And on the rare occasions he does, what do we get? The brilliance he demonstrated in this very thread. Very impressive! Harry....tell him he is wasting his time here. And ours. Maybe he will listen to a non American. You seem like a reasonable guy. Do us a favor and try and get though to him that he is not accomplishing whatever it is he is attempting to do here. Then when you have done that, come pay us a visit. See for yourself that a farmer can indeed become the leader of this country. Anybody can. But only for a limited time. Peace, Rs8.5
Switzerland - Constitution http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/sz00t___.html Direct Democracy http://www.basiclaw.net/Principles/Direct democracy.htm
Oh really I am pleased to learn that you know already that Bush family has a nazi tradition in their bloodline - I am just surprised that you avoid to mention that the son has some chance to have inherited from the same gene and culture . I hope that you will now learn something big about Bush and Cheney in their ACTIVE PARTICIPATION in the MK Ultra Project which is a mind control program which just persue the nazi program with the explicit involvment of Cheney and then Bush in fact you will really be shocked by the scene described. http://www.trance-formation.com/default.htm "On August 3rd, 1977 the 95th U.S. Congress opened hearings into the reported abuses concerning the CIA's TOP SECRET mind control research program code named MK-Ultra. On February 8th, 1988, a top-level MK-Ultra victim, Cathy O'Brien, was covertly rescued from her mind control enslavement by Intelligence insider Mark Phillips. Their seven year pursuit of Justice was stopped FOR REASONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY. TRANCE Formation of America exposes the truth behind this covert government program and its ultimate goal: psychological control of a nation. TRANCE Formation of America is the first documented autobiography of a victim of government mind control. Cathy O'Brien is the only vocal and recovered survivor of the Central Intelligence Agency's MK-Ultra Project Monarch operation. Tracing her path from child pornography and recruitment into the program to serving as a top-level intelligence agent and White House sex slave, TRANCE Formation of America is a definitive eye-witness account of government corruption that implicates some of the most prominent figures in U.S. politics. " As promised a crude illustrationof Cheney in "action" and following that Cheney and Bush : http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/game.htm Dick Cheney, then White House Chief of Staff to President Ford, later Secretary of Defense to President George Bush, documented member of the Council on Foreign relations (CFR), and Presidential hopeful for 1996, was originally Wyoming's only Congressman. Dick Cheney was the reason my family had traveled to Wyoming where I endured yet another form of brutality -- his version of "A Most Dangerous Game," or human hunting. It is my understanding now that A Most Dangerous Game was devised to condition military personnel in survival and combat maneuvers. Yet it was used on me and other slaves known to me as a means of further conditioning the mind to the realization there was "no place to hide," as well as traumatize the victim for ensuing programming. It was my experience over the years that A Most Dangerous Game had numerous variations on the primary theme of being stripped naked and turned loose in the wilderness while being hunted by men and dogs. In reality, all "wilderness" areas were enclosed in secure military fencing whereby it was only a matter of time until I was caught, repeatedly raped, and tortured. Dick Cheney had an apparent addiction to the "thrill of the sport." He appeared obsessed with playing A Most Dangerous Game as a means of traumatizing mind control victims, as well as to satisfy his own perverse sexual kinks. My introduction to the game occurred upon arrival at the hunting lodge near Greybull, Wyoming, and it physically and psychologically devastated me. I was sufficiently traumatized for Cheney's programming, as I stood naked in his hunting lodge office after being hunted down and caught. Cheney was talking as he paced around me, "I could stuff you and mount you like a jackalope and call you a two legged dear. Or I could stuff you with this (he unzipped his pants to reveal his oversized penis) right down your throat, and then mount you. Which do you prefer?" Blood and sweat became mixed with the dirt on my body and slid like mud down my legs and shoulder. I throbbed with exhaustion and pain as I stood unable to think to answer such a question. "Make up your mind," Cheney coaxed. Unable to speak, I remained silent. "You don't get a choice, anyway. I make up your mind for you. That's why you're here. For me to make you a mind, and make you mine/mind. You lost your mind a long time ago. Now I'm going to give you one. Just like the Wizard (of Oz) gave Scarecrow a brain, the Yellow Brick Road led you here to me. You've 'come such a long, long way' for your brain, and I will give you one." The blood reached my shoes and caught my attention. Had I been further along in my programming, I perhaps would never have noticed such a thing or had the capability to think to wipe it away. But so far, I had only been to MacDill and Disney World for government/military programming. At last, when I could speak, I begged, "If you don't mind, can I please use your bathroom?" Cheney's face turned red with rage. He was on me in an instant, slamming my back into the wall with one arm across my chest and his hand on my throat, choking me while applying pressure to the cartorid artery in my neck with his thumb. His eyes bulged and he spit as he growled, "If you don't mind me, I will kill you. I could kill you -- Kill you -- with my bare hands. You're not the first and you won't be the last. I'll kill you any time I goddamn well please." He flung me on the cot-type bed that as behind me. There he finished taking his rage out on me sexually. On the long trip back to Michigan, I lay in a heap behind the seats of the Suburban, nauseated and hurting from Cheney's brutality and high voltage tortures, plus the whole Wyoming experience. My father stopped by the waterfalls flowing through the Tetons to "wash my brain" of the memory of Cheney. I could barely walk through the woods to the falls for the process as instructed, despite having learned my lessons well from Cheney on following orders. The next year when our "annual" trip to Disney World rolled around, my father drove, pulling his new Holiday Rambler Royale International trailer. My father dropped me off en route at the Kennedy Space Center in Titusville, Florida where I was subjected to my first NASA programming. From then on, I was "obsessed" with following the "Yellow Brick Road" to Nashville, Tennessee. Moving to Nashville was all I could talk about. If anyone asked me the question I could not think to ask myself "Why?", I would respond by reiterating it was something "I had to do." http://www.trance-formation.com/book_excerpts/regame.htm The Most Dangerous Game: Revisited George Bush was highly active in the Lampe, Missouri and Mount ...
And it is not finished her daughter Kelly is still prisoner of this mind control program in the State of Tenessee ! Yes it is in YOUR COUNTRY and this program is intended to be extended to the whole population of the US and probably the world !!! "Kelly, now 15, remains a political prisoner in the custody of the State of Tennessee where she is denied qualified therapy for the MK-Ultra Project Monarch Mind-Control abuses she endured. The state of Tennessee, under the politically powerful influence of Kelly's abusers, is in violation of numerous laws and basic civil rights in their determined efforts to keep Kelly from qualified therapy and the family she loves. While many of those in positions to make a difference in Kelly's case operate on a "Need to Know" basis rather than deliberately conspire with the bad guys, a closer look into Kelly's case history should raise serious questions in their minds. Questions like; "What could a child have to do with the so called "National Security" of our country?" The Juvenile court judge presiding over Kelly's case closed the doors to the media and onlookers for "reasons of National Security" while gross and blatant violations of laws and rights ensued. For over three long years, Kelly and I have been denied our right to an unbiased attorney while court-appointed advocates and so-called "guardians" join forces with attorneys paid off by me pedophile father. My own court-appointed attorney, who doubles for the Juvenile Court judge when he takes a day off, has yet to represent my interest. My interest is in Kelly's well being and future-- and if she will have a future at all. While Kelly is still amnesic with regard to most of her past, she is deliberately denied therapeutical access to her past, due to who and what she will recall. I am denied access to Kelly for fear she would be triggered into remembering by my mere presence. As for my deliberately "triggering" Kelly to remember what she was supposed to forget, as her abusers fear, it has been my experience that recovery must come from the inside out. Not from outside input. I want no less for Kelly that the piece/peace of mind I have gained through qualified rehabilitation. Which raises the questions: Why has the Juvenile court prohibited us from saying the name "George Bush?" Why is the "Wizard of Oz" a taboo subject for Kelly while the State of Tennessee provides her with Stephen King horror novels? Why are Kelly and I forbidden by the court to say the words "President," "politics," New World Order", and "mind-control"?. Bush is just a follower of Ceasar: "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenary into a patriotic fervor,for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword.It both emboldens the blood,just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed,the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know?For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar"
Due to my tranced, dissociative state and high suggestibility level, I believed it was indeed a cross between a jack rabbit and antelope.
You can still laugh today but tomorrow this program is intended to be applied to the whole population. In fact they must have begun their population fear conditioning with their "100% probability of nuclear terrorism", then the SARS psychose and next this ? CNN "If end is near, do you want to know?" http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/02/28/asteriod.alert/index.html For what can you expect from these guys that are just doing what nazis were doing huh ?
Purple haze all in my brain Lately things just don't seem the same Actin' funny, but I don't know why 'Scuse me while I kiss the sky Purple haze all in my eyes, uhh Don't know if its day or night You got me blowin', blowin' my mind Is it tomorrow, or just the end of time? Due to my tranced, dissociative state and high suggestibility level, I believed it was indeed a cross between a jack rabbit and antelope. Oh no, did that robot just have a baby? It did didn't it. I think heard it cry. Nah, that was just the door squeaking. Hey man, I think that first hit was a dud, gimmie another one.
"I hope that you will now learn something big about Bush and Cheney in their ACTIVE PARTICIPATION in the MK Ultra Project which is a mind control program which just persue the nazi program with the explicit involvment of Cheney and then Bush in fact you will really be shocked by the scene described." I can believe that Cheney would be involved in mind control, he has one. But Bush? Dude couldn't even control a pretzel.
LOL. yes, only one war and one 'operation.' no argument on that nor of the legality of the operation here. the point is that they have taken a different approach than that of recent administrations - they don't shift or try to hide the obvious, but instead exaggerate it. they don't try to play down the role of those with past involvements and duties, they instead put them on the talk shows to argue the case. they ignore sensitivities and throw it back in the faces of their detractors with scorn. they address concerns by doing exactly what was warned against, then refusing to comment. again, this is in admiration of a brilliant tactic. politicians can, and should, hold to their faith - but it could be argued that there is a substantial gap between sunday mass and senior executives holding prayer sessions for their staff in government offices, whether the prayers be wiccan or quaker or islamic. yes, yes, it's on a lunch break and they're voluntary, etc., we have been told - the point again is that in response to substantial criticism, they don't try to play it down or spin it (as would, say, Clinton) - they go even further. I don't understand your last comment - who said anything about being smarter? it's about approaches to criticism and a reversal of the policy of feigned respect and compassion that the US is used to. instead of having a Clinton nodding and weeping with fake sympathy for the concerns of the people, while secretly fantasizing about interns and pardons, now there's a group that comes right out and says: "too bad. we don't give a crap what you think. what are you going to do about it?"