Dual Citizenship

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by Corso482, Nov 13, 2002.

  1. dkny

    dkny

    If you choose the Italaian citizenship for tax purposes, you need different to fill out different tax forms from the broker. W8BEN instead of W4
     
    #31     Nov 17, 2002
  2. Nope. Niet. Non. Nicht. You do not "surrender" or give up anything. You pledge allegiance to the US and you promise to bear arms for the US if called upon to do so. The fact that you forbade allegiance to foreign powers or potentates (that's the wording) does not mean that you surrender your rights under other citizenships. It's not a loophole and it's not the US turning a blind eye on it. It's simply that as far as the US is concerned only your US citizenship counts. Whatever happens with your other countries of citizenship is between you and them. But you are fully within your rights under US law. You were born a British citizen and you want your wife or your children to acquire British citizenship? Knock yourself out, the US does not care. You became a US citizen and Japan strips you out of your Japanese citizenship as a consequence? That's your business, the US does not care. You get my drift...

    To give an analogy, once you are a US citizen the fact that you are also a citizen of Britain is no more significant than the fact that you have brown hair or that you wear glasses. It's important only in relation to you and British authorities.

    A US citizen is expected to bear arms if called upon; and he/she's expected not to bear arms agains the US or engage into any other treason against it; although you would not know it from reading the press and looking at the activities within US academia and other vipers nests. But that's another story...

    Anyhow, taking up arms against or treason of your citizenship country are not "rights". You only promised what is normal and expected of any normal human beings (again, here we could go into that and discuss the large number or abnormal human beings who go through the cracks; but we won't...). But you did not "surrender" any rights.

    In short, there is no difference within the law (or in actual treatment) between naturalized and US-born citizens. None whatsoever. So dual-citizenship is a non-issue. Or triple for that matter.

    You can be excused for the confusion, I have known US legal residents on green cards who were refraining to acquire US citizenship because of the perceived incertainty. Some of them were Canadians for Pete's sake :D They should have known better. At least checked it out with the INS... Their position is clear.
     
    #32     Nov 17, 2002
  3. Check this out:
    <i>
    If you have been a dual citizen from birth or childhood, or else became a citizen of another country after already having US citizenship, and the other country in question does not have any laws or regulations requiring you to formally renounce your US citizenship before US consular officials, then current US law unambiguously assures your right to keep both citizenships for life.

    The US State Department -- traditionally quite combative in its handling of dual-citizenship claims -- has changed the way it handles these cases in recent years, and it is now much easier to retain such a status without a fight than it used to be.

    The situation is slightly less clear for someone who becomes a US citizen via naturalization and still wishes to take advantage of his old citizenship. <b>People who go through US naturalization are required to state under oath that they are renouncing their old citizenship</b>, and conduct inconsistent with this pledge could theoretically lead to loss of one's US status.

    However, the State Department is no longer actively pursuing cases of this nature in most situations. In particular, when a new American's "old country" refuses to recognize the US naturalization oath (with its renunciatory clause) as having any effect on its own citizenship laws -- and insists that the person in question must continue to deal with his old country as a citizen thereof (e.g., by using that country's passport when travelling there to visit) -- the US State Department no longer minds.

    Similarly, the State Department doesn't seem to be doing anything any more to people who renounce their US citizenship as part of a foreign country's "routine" naturalization procedure (in a manner similar to what the US makes its new citizens do). However, if the other country in question requires its newly naturalized citizens to approach officials of their old countries to revoke their previous status, one will generally not be able to remain a citizen both of that country and the US.

    </i>
     
    #33     Nov 18, 2002
  4. Well, the oath does not mention renouncing your old citizenship. It mentions renouncing allegiance, which is a different matter entirely. Lawyers and historical interpretations vary, but the reality is clear. The State Dept has not always been clear on what's going on. However, in practice dual citizenship is not a problem at all, unless the person does something stupid like travelling on several set of documents from the US and the other country of citizenship.

    As far as "taking advantage of their old citizenship", if it's for things other than tax reasons (don't mess with the IRS), there is no problem there.
     
    #34     Nov 18, 2002