Double calendar question

Discussion in 'Options' started by markncsu, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. markncsu

    markncsu

    Given your experience in trading options, would you - or anyone else - mind sharing the strategies that have proven to be successful for you? Thanks in advance.
     
    #11     Dec 31, 2014
  2. Pm me
     
    #12     Dec 31, 2014
  3. ATM calendars are long vega and theta, but have a rather strong negative gamma going off-center. The idea of a double calendar would be to keep the +v and +t but lessen the gamma-effect by broadening the range. Never tried it, but what's wrong with that plan?
     
    #13     Jan 1, 2015
    tiles likes this.
  4. sonoma

    sonoma

    The basic idea I'd suggest to new traders is to keep things as simple as possible and not over-commit to any one single position, whether it’s the initial trade in a product or simply one you’ve added to a larger inventory. The complexity of the double calendar comes with the deferred month vol risk. If you evaluate the differences in breakevens, greeks, cost, return profiles, and drawdowns, you’ll see the disadvantage of a double calendar compared to a more simple trade that is positioned initially with a neutral outlook also, but with the option of adding another trade as the underlying moves or iv changes.

    Certainly there are situations that would justify taking the risk of deferred month vol change, but I’d leave that for a time when the OP has more experience.
     
    #14     Jan 1, 2015
    MajorUrsa likes this.
  5. I agree that there is more risk to calendars than seems at first sight, specifically because of the difference in IV of the legs. The vega-effect is also much more prominent in calendars than the (increasing) negative gamma. So it probably isn't worth it to widen the latter anyway. But I can see OP's seems like a natural step to buy cheap vega, as opposed to selling vega/calendars when vega is high.
     
    #15     Jan 2, 2015
  6. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    He is NOT buying cheap vega. He is buying or "trying" to buy flat skew. I don't even think he is aware of that. The p&l is coming from the skew, not the "vega".
     
    #16     Jan 2, 2015
    Dolemite and MajorUrsa like this.
  7. Happy, healthy and prosperous 2015 to all!

    I think I see what you mean, but I still feel that if an ATM long cal is considered a good bet, so would a double long calendar be. I agree that modeling it correctly is probably useless effort. I somehow miss why it would be so much worse.

    In the past I shorted ATM calendars when IV was extra high, trying to profit from a drop in IV or a sharp move in the spot. Of course a sharp drop in spot also would sometimes induce an even higher IV, which was OK if spot stayed low and IV eased down in time. I guess the approach was rather simplistic but it was easy to establish and risk didn't keep me awake :) although there were some confusing scenario's.

    I have no experience in trading long calendars though. I was always scared of the -gamma with an ATM long calendar. The only way I would consider them was OTM (or ITM) with low IV and expecting the spot to move towards me. Since I'm very bad at predicting market (spot) direction I tend to avoid those methods.

    The OP probably has the same issue, trying to be non-directional in low IV environment. I have the feeling we both miss the final link here. I only recently returned to option-trading, nice to see the same faces here still. A little nudge would be welcome.
     
    #17     Jan 2, 2015
  8. I have been trading calendars for years with great success. You need to know how to do it properly - those who say it's BS just don't know how to trade it.
     
    #18     Jan 2, 2015
    markuzick and MajorUrsa like this.
  9. sonoma

    sonoma

    It's not so much that a double calendar is a disastrous trade. It's just a more expensive way to express a market opinion than the alternative. Of course, you can trade these types of positions successfully, but if you're making the effort to learn to trade, why not do so with an eye towards optimal?
     
    #19     Jan 3, 2015
  10. Very interesting discussion. Would similar modeling risk extend to diagonals or plain calendars? I have experienced more than my share of multiple-expiry trades that don't behave "as expected".
     
    #20     Jan 5, 2015