Got killed on open orders all this week! Had small winners, by the time got out all were losers! Seems no liquidity out there.
days, that is. Monday- 0 for 2, lost 35 cents net. (BMY.....) Tuesday- 2 for 2 made 30 cents net..... Wednesday- 4 for 4 made 54 cents net... Don't recommend LOLing at Don. He usually gets the last LOL.
Er, I'll take that as directed at my "LOL". I hope people here - especially Don - didn't take it to mean I was laughint AT Don. I'm not a "don basher" (we all know what that means don't we?), and I don't recall ever having quibbled with Don about anything. Hey, I like the guy. I did find the term "decent number" amusing though, not in a bad way, I've just never heard an exit described that way before. I actually did have a serious question though. If we take 15cents as being a decent number number to exit a winner, (I understand that with multiple positions it's hard to keep track of things, so you might aswell take the 15cents you've got rather than trying to "finesse" 6 different trades) what would be a "decent number" at which to exit a loser? Do you guys simply take the loss as soon as you get it, give it 5cents, 10cents? That was the spirit of my question.
Just having fun. Sometimes I try for an indecent number. "If we take 15cents as being a decent number number to exit a winner, (I understand that with multiple positions it's hard to keep track of things, so you might aswell take the 15cents you've got rather than trying to "finesse" 6 different trades) what would be a "decent number" at which to exit a loser? Do you guys simply take the loss as soon as you get it, give it 5cents, 10cents? That was the spirit of my question." That is the crux of the biscuit. Occasionally you are down 30 or 40 cents in a heartbeat- you just have to taperead and decide whether to bite it or wait for a reaction. I also use 2 minute bars, and don't want to be postioned against a breakout of the range of the first 2 or 3 bars. I also watch my total p&l for open positions for a general feel of how I'm doing. Obviously more quick to get out if I'm down overall. After a fill I will usually place a bid or offer from 20 to 50 cents away. I almost always adjust that based on the tape (ie. hit the bid or offer), if I am up as little as 10 or 12 cents, I will probably not let that trade turn into a loser, specialist shenanigans notwithstanding. Stocks I traded today: don't think I'll give any names. Two were dow stocks, one retailer, one consumer non durables.
Serious 30-40 cents right off the open? Geez, I didn't realise those listed suckers could do that (I have NO experiene with listed stocks). Might not be the best strategy for me then, there's no way I'd wait for a reaction if got hit for 40 straight off the bat. Does the opposite ever happen, you are up 30-40 "in a heartbeat"?
This is a high probability play. We tend to make money 7 of 8 days, and the profits far outweigh any small losses. We use enveloping strategies and stop "winners" to best exit the trades. rarely will you see more than a nickel or a dime loss in a listed stock after the opening. The whole point is that you have an open position on the same side as the NYSE specialist...and how often do you think he takes losses.? Rarely... Don
Yes but he has a much bigger pocket than us and may accumulate size while providing liquidity over a longer timeframe that we are willing or able to stay in. Point is that he may initially be in a losing position that becomes a winning one....but far after we would have been stopped out. I am asking this as much as stating it as I have virtually no experience trading listed....but this seems to make sense.
Good question...since trading listed is so much easier than OTC (simply due to the rules, use of the NX ecn, etc., nothing negative about OTC meant by the statement), you will find that you are given the same opportunity to "get out" at a profit (sometimes you may get only a few seconds or so) as the Specialist, it still makes it a high probability play. I share my entire journal (and my brother's), showing our opening plays for the last few months with all of our School attendees, and even though these numbers don't reflect our entire trading numbers, they give a good example of how this simple strategy works. It's even kinda funny how my brother and I share some of the same stocks, yet have significantly different numbers quite often. Don
Don't worry, I have gone any "more crazy"...but here is a post from a couple back... Yesterday and today seem to be bringing us "daytraders paradise" - where the Spoos are leading the market perfectly and moving up and down considerably (kinda early to tell today, but looks the same). Put in some 10 cent envelopes, small shares, this may work....I'm going to do it. Don Now I went ahead and followed the "envelope" strategy today, with success... since I can't devote enough time to tape reading the stocks, I used the same strategy for the emini's....sold at 1044, 1046, 1049...covered at 1044.5 average (trading only small lots).... I just wanted to let you all know that I try to actually "do" what I "say" about trading. Let's see what tomorrow brings!! Don