The trade in question is a paired trade right? COF short with a PVN long...I was in that trade as well when earnings for PVN came out(it was oct of 2001 I believe). They took PVN out back and shot it after earnings and the conference call. I listened to the the whole CC. Management was nervous and couldn't answer questions with confidence. All earnings estimates were in doubt as well as managements ability to run a company. I had to get out as it sounded like outright fraud and mismanagement. There were shareholder lawsuits (I actually got a check a couple of months ago from the shareholder lawsuits). I also followed PVN after the blow up...they lost money in some of the following years. had a negative P/e and cash flow....Fundamentals did change. Did anyone "pair" up enron with anything and ride it down....how about UAL? Or any of the other 1000s of companies that went bankrupt. Anyone in this "trade" went from trader to gambler/investor. Is this considered trading?
You know, I suspected this was the case. I use to trade PVN and COF back in 2000 to 2002. A lot of guys had that pair on. I think this was also the case with Don's GM/F trade. You can correct me on that Don. Where they were short GM and long F and GM was getting bid up for months after their debt was downgraded. I believe a lot of guys at Bright got hurt on that and Bob took that trade over and held GM stock short outright. Same thing. That trade ended up coming back in and all was well. But again, my beef is the same. The market is telling you you're wrong and the trader refuses to give in. I just don't understand how these stories have a happy ending over the long run.
Here's a guy taking "extreme issue" with someone else's trade telling me to "cool it on the rhetoric!" Last I checked....my first amendment rights were still intact, too. As I said, the trade fits him perfectly. Doesn't mean it's right for you, me, or anyone else. Whether you like it or not, it was a great trade, and an example of great trading. Honestly though, I don't think this is really about Bob, or bad trading, or even a discussion of good trading. I think that this is just a stunt on your part for a little PR. I think you're just looking to raise your profile a bit, and looking to ultimately promote your firm and "your" style of good trading. But, What do I know? I'm just an automated equities trader.
Ok, whatever Mike. You have spoken to me on the phone. If you really think that, nothing I can do about it. And btw Mike, I have met Don in person. In fact, we had dinner together. Imagine that huh? And I told Don in person over dinner everything I told him now. Don can verify that if he wants. See, thats the difference between you and Me I guess. I actually speak my mind to people both on here and in person, or phone, whatever it may be. Don and I have a mutual respect for each other in that I don't think he is a bad guy, nor is his brother. However we see the business very differently. I have exchanged barbs with Don for years now. It has nothing to do with promotion or me. It is nothing but healthy debate. I have had these exchanges with a lot of people on ET. You see, thats what these boards are for. Hmm, go figure. Anyway Mike, I can lead a horse to the creek but I can't make him drink the water. You can think what you want. My integrity has never been in question on here or in person.
Same difference. Long GM while it tanked, short F. Don told me the story over dinner. And even he admitted that trade was a disaster. Now go run along now Mike. Don can defend himself quite well. He doesn't need a lap dog.
Seems to me, you might be the critic who can't handle the criticism back. Between my conversations with you and reading your posts, it seems that anyone else who makes money in any other way then you see as a "viable" way to make money, is wrong, and won't be able to sustain it going forward. Bob makes 30 mm, on a stock that recovers, and It is an example of poor trading, I trade automated systems on equities and you tell me equities trading is dead. Another guys sells options spreads, and "it works until it puts you out of business!" You're entitled to your opinion, that's fine...just please don't act like your way is the only way to succeed in the market. The fact is, as long as you are making money, and structure your risk so that no single trade can put you out of business, you are trading well, and have a viable trading strategy. But again, that's just my opinion!
Your post said he was short GM, there is a big difference between being long and short, wouldn't you agree? Lose the attitude, please, don't talk down to me....I won't take your shit. BTW...I know you have short term memory problems...so I'll remind you, our initial conversation was about PVN....not GM. I was defending the trade that Bob made, and you were telling me why it was such a bad trade...does that ring any bells? Well, it's been fun, but I've got other things to do today. As is often the case, you may have the final word.
question for the Brites...is it ok for students to trade that way? Also is it a matter of course for others in your firm to keep adding?
Mike, you are so full of it. If you listened to both those live audio chats, I said in both of them that there is no such thing as a good or bad strategy. There are only good and bad traders. I would put Bob in the category of good traders. But that trade he made was bad. There is no other way to argue that. Please reference somewhere on those audio chats were I'm telling people how or how not to trade. And Mike, if what you say is true, and I'm pushing people over to how I trade, then surely you should be able to tell everyone here how it is I trade. I'm betting a dime to the dollar you can't do that because I don't discuss how I trade on this forum. So how can I be pushing people over to how I trade? You know, don't answer that. And btw Mike, at my firm, we have people that trade everything under the sun. We actually have guys that trade pairs!!!! Holy shit, can you believe that Mike? We also have guys that scalp, trade stock, trade futures, trade options. There is no one strategy. So yeah, good job on being wrong yet again. Seriously man, what is your deal today. Don and I have been having these debates for years. That is what these boards are for. You jump in here out of no where and start attacking me making accusations that clearly are not true. Do you not have an ounce of integrity? You know, don't answer that either Mike. LOL. I'm trying to help you out here. Anyway, to sum up, I have never told anyone they are wrong on how they trade. I've never promoted my style of trading on these boards. And when I told you equity trading was dead, it is dead!!!! We use to have 50 prop firms trading equities, now we have maybe 3. The vix was at 20 to 30 when I daytraded them, now it's at 10. I never said you can't make money trading dead markets, I just said they were DEAD!!!!!! As long as you keep missing these elementary points, you leave me no choice but to talk down to you. If the shoe fits as they say. LOL.