Does your prop platform have instant execution?

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by ArcticTrader, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. ArcticTrader

    ArcticTrader Guest

    I am posting this in Prop Firms instead of Order Execution, because I want to compare software platforms and how they are being implemented at various prop firms only. Please feel free to comment with the experiences you have had with your platform.

    The platform at my firm (I trade remote) is CyberTrader, and I have noticed at times extreme delays in getting orders placed and filled. It was my understanding that a prop direct access platform should offer nearly instantaneous execution, but I regularly observe the following behaviour:

    (1) Sometimes it takes up to a few seconds to even see an order placed after the key is pressed.

    (2) After an order is placed, and the stock is sitting at a price level where it should be filled, I have observed up to 5 second delays before the fill comes in. This is not just a case of late reporting, because if the stock moves the fill never actually happens.

    (3) I have placed limit orders in the market that have stayed there for a few minutes, only to see a timeout message occur and have my order automatically re-placed at the same price. This of course ensures to keep me right at the back of the line at any given price once trades start to happen there. Is this normal? Why should my order time out after a few minutes?

    (4) Often when I place a market order on a stock that is moving away from me, the system just places a limit order at the current bid/ask, which of course ensures (with the time delay) that it won't get filled as the stock has already moved past that point. The system then cancels that order and places another at the new bid/ask, which again doesn't get filled because the price has moved by the time the order gets there. All in all, I only seem to get filled once the stock pauses for a few seconds, and the execution platform "catches up" to it. I have often been filled 10 cents away from where the market was when I pressed the key. Is this normal and/or acceptable?

    I just want a platform that actually executes my orders with no more than a few hundred milliseconds delay from the time I press the key, which is my understanding of what is supposed to happen with direct access software. I am wrong about this assumption, and should I just stick with what I have because the same situation exists everywhere?

  2. cashonly

    cashonly Bright Trading, LLC

    Lots of things could be going on and most are NOT associated with your firm.

    Delays associated with your firm:

    If you firm does buying power checks, that can introduce a certain amount of delay.
    And then there can be additional delay depending on the checks your firm's clearing firm's do on orders from your firm.
    And depending on if you use your firm's smart order routing mechanisms, that can also cause delays.
    Your firm's servers could be having issues.

    Delays not associated with your firm can occur also:
    If it's sent to the NYSE floor and not a marketable Direct+ order, then you're at the mercy of the specialist and how long he or his assistant takes to respond.
    If it's sent to an ECN, sometimes ECNs don't respond immediately (even though they should)... I believe there are conditions under which an ECN can hold your order for 15-30 seconds.

    Delays associated with your firm OR otherwise:
    You could be looking at stale quotes and this could be caused by your firm's line's to the exchanges/ECNs or the firms servers OR by the exchanges/ECNs themselves.
    You could have problems with the internet somewhere between you and your firm which is clowing down your orders... data may be coming to you in a timely manner, but your uploads (orders entered) may not be.

    Just some ideas.

  3. ArcticTrader

    ArcticTrader Guest

    Just to clarify, these are all NASDAQ orders... I know the delays with NYSE specialists only too well, but this is not one of those things. Also, I can say that at least some of it is definitely not the internet... many times the order does actually appear at the server and is placed (according to the system), but just isn't filled for a while.

    In any case, it would be good to get a sampling of experiences from other remote prop traders to see what their experiences are like... I'd still like to know if what I am experiencing is typical or not...
  4. cashonly

    cashonly Bright Trading, LLC

    Contact your rep at your firm. If you give them the order number of a particular order that took much longer than you thought, they should be able to track down it's route and contact the exchange/ecn where any delay occurred. But you definitely need to do this ASAP after the order is filled/cancelled.

  5. cc2trade


    Delays are not unusual. I have experienced 30-45 second delays on the rare market orders I place. Interestingly , they are ALWAYS in favor of the specialist. I check time&sales and lvl-II to confirm, and the trades are driven by manipulation.

    Can broker or software improve? Who knows. There is no consistency in evaluations in the posts...
  6. qtip


    Not sure if this helps, but Cybertrader has different types proprietary orders as well like CyberExchange and what not. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

    I use to have an account with Cybertrader and I have to say what makes them good is there execution.
  7. OK, first off, I think that OtC market orders are turned to limit orders at the bid/price when placed. This may have changed, but I don't think so...who is going to decide what "market" price to fill you?

    Retail orders need to go through the brokerage, and they can possibly trade against you or sell your order flow (this can be done in a second or two). If you are using an ECN (not ARCA, since they have Market Makers as well)...then you should be filled the second your finger is off the mouse.

    With RediPlus, which has gotten extremely better since Goldman took over a couple of years ago, we can use the ECN's or SigmaX which is a smart router to hidden liquidity pools, but the same speed we're used to is there. We may even get price improvement at times.

    Perhaps go to

    There are many "add on" front ends that have neat stuff on them, but the speed of execution is not a function of the front end for the most part.

    All the best,

  8. sterling trader pro works pretty well... I've had a few slow downs of a second or 2 on orders appearing or being filled but >80% of the time it's instantaneous...

    I read your other thread, that's bull about there being no native market orders...

    If you can't solve any of those problems, I'd try demoing some other platforms.. Laser or Sterling would be a good bet.

  9. wrong don. arca proactive is instant market. i just banged out 25k after hrs on aaple,ebay and qcom all instant fills and they were moving like lighting. inet has no market orders all limits. find a professional platform as the fills are much better
  10. Or trade futures, dummies!
    #10     Jul 19, 2006