Does anyone know why gold has gone up so much in the few days?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by morganist, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. m22au

    m22au

    Maybe it wasn't a bubble bursting, but rather a much-needed pullback after the advance from $18 to $49 in less than 10 months. I see from the chart that silver has not fallen below its 200 DMA, and has now formed a nice double-bottom at about $34.

    I have no position in silver (although I am long gold). However let's suppose that silver goes above $50 before it goes below $34 - does that then confirm that the decline from $49 to $32 in early May was not a "bubble popping" but rather a big pullback as part of its uptrend?

    For me, the bubble is not in gold and silver, but rather the faith in paper money. That is the bubble that is bursting.
     
    #21     Jul 17, 2011
  2. rros

    rros

    MZM. Much higher inflation blindsiding everyone.
     
    #22     Jul 18, 2011
  3. jo0477

    jo0477



    Succinct and best plain vanilla answer i've seen yet. No need to complicate things, this is Econ 101... glad to see someone just telling it like it is. I've been long gold since the 800's so keep on printing!!
     
    #23     Jul 18, 2011
  4. Silver near 40, and gold near 1600. I would not be surprised if some retreat takes place at these levels. If they hit the sell stop orders, where do you think they would be heading to?
     
    #24     Jul 18, 2011
  5. ajcrshr

    ajcrshr

    I think gold hitting new highs without silver has something to do with the futures margin requirements. Why would someone buy silver futures when it requires less capital to hold a gold position? Both would protect against the printing press. Silver hasn't moved aggressively since they raised the margins 500%

    http://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/margins/#e=CMX&a=METALS&p=all
     
    #25     Jul 18, 2011
  6. m22au

    m22au

    That might be true, but it's probably got more to do with silver having another $9 of "overhead supply" (people wanting to get out at break even), whereas gold is less than 1% from its record.
     
    #26     Jul 18, 2011
  7. One word: Grease
     
    #27     Jul 18, 2011
  8. Guys the printing press requires the Federal government to continue lending 100B Dollars of currency into existence. Right now the US government is no longer borrowing money, and with the anxiety investors feel. They invest based on their algorithmic principles, that still imply that the US bond is a non-risk asset. Therefore they buy the US Bond regardless of a potential risk, for a partial default. That being the case every single month banks, and major institutions carry trade, and buy all available US T Bonds. So in order to carry trade, by borrowing from the federal reserve at a low prime rate, and buying t-bonds. In order to earn the difference between the prime rate, and the interest rate on t-bonds. But, what happens when the US government is no longer issuing bonds, with more cash following the same amount of bonds available?

    The answer is simple demand increases, while supply decreases. Therefore it increases the price of t-bonds while lowering interest rates. Observe the phenomenon of technical analysis in full swing. This is why understanding technicals, and how it truly apply in a market setting is extremely important. Now, let's examine the fundamental characteristics even closer.

    Treasury bonds are going up temporarily because the government is not issuing bonds. That's purely technical supply/demand characteristic of a market. That is currently playing out. However, the fundamental reasons, for why it should fall are extremely valid, and here's why. In the case of partial default, or an approval to raise the debt ceiling. The value of US T-Bonds should fall.

    Because if in the case the debt limit is raised. There will be a huge surplus of supply that will most likely overwhelm demand. Because of this treasury bond interest rates will rise, and the value of t-bonds will fall.

    In the case of a Partial-Default we will see a rapid contraction of credit. Therefore causing a hyper-deflationary event. Because the higher cost of credit will reduce the amount of lending. Thus reducing the amount of M3 currency, or basically all existing currency (M3 currency is real accessible currency in non-physical form). The Partial default will lead to a downgrade on our debt rating. Thus making borrowing more difficult, and more expensive, for the US government, and all US corporations. Interest rates on all forms of debt will go up, and therefore slow economic growth. That implies deflation, and that will lead to asset devaluation. Stocks, bonds, commodities (including precious metals) will fall. The dollar will rally against a basket of other currencies. Because the scarcity of the US dollar will increase.

    If in the case the US government were to completely default, and everything that was suppose to happen in 2009 after the Lehman Collapse happened in the following months. The value of the dollar would rapidly appreciate with the rapid collapse in valuation on all asset classifications. All paper US currency, which is currently estimated at 500B Dollars would appreciate in value, by 20-30X, with the rapid depreciation of all forms of assets. Just because a government collapses, or seizes to function. Doesn't mean people will not defer to the most trusted asset they possess, which in fact. Is the US dollar. People will rely on their paper currency, because all currency in their bank accounts will evaporate as if it did not exist. Currency is for the purpose of facilitating exchange. Which means it does not need intrinsic value. It only needs implied value, and in times of fear. That implied value increases drastically.

    A scarcity of the dollar. Is the most likely of outcomes. Causing rampant panic, and hoarding. The price of all goods will fall, with less money following the same amount of goods. Therefore supply rapidly increases, while demand drops to a trickle. Again, this is the most likely outcome in the case of an outright default, along with a bankrupt banking system. People would not trash their dollars, they would worship them. Gold, and Silver will still retain value in hyper deflation. But, it would not rapidly appreciate. It would rapidly depreciate. However gold, and silver is a neutral hedge. That protects you from both deflation, and inflation, by always retaining value. However, the strongest hedge against rapid deflation is always paper currency that is not deposited in the bank. The best hedge against inflation is income producing investments with business growth that exceeds the rate of inflation. Even after a defunct government. People would still accept US bills. Because it's all they've used their whole life, and it's convenient. People do not use gold, or silver to transact. Ignorance carries a price, and the ignorance of the masses. Is what will determine the market value of paper currency. My bet is that the masses will be busy bidding up the value of their currency, rather than throwing them in the trash can.

    This is economics 303, and not 101. One must observe the theoretical boundaries of what's reality first, and understand the governing physics of our current monetary system.
     
    #28     Jul 18, 2011
  9. Crashing right now
     
    #29     Jul 19, 2011
  10. Larson

    Larson Guest

    The US bond market is so distorted and removed from reality, based on the fundamentals of US borrowing needs, that a nasty surprise is indeed waiting in the future. Ben has enlisted his cohorts in the banking system to run the scam. Didn't maddof run one for awhile and then "poof". These things can go on longer than anyone imagines, and then one day..............so, no I am not convinced. My gold pawnshop broker wants to buy back all the gold he sold me in 2008. I am not selling.
     
    #30     Jul 19, 2011