Does anyone actually believe in God or are they just afraid...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Joe, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. jem

    jem

    Are you calling the standard model of physics simply a statistical case?

    The standard model was used to predict where you would find the higgs boson.
    Thats not really just statistics, that is an amazingly complex but working model of the universe.

    did you even review the videos I posted.... wtf... why are just making shit up because it offends your ideas.
    Watch the two susskind videos and get back to me.

    you are not really ready for this until you understand the standard model uses about 20 constants tuned to 32 decimal places.

    That is in itself incredible fine tuning.



     
    #161     Apr 28, 2014
  2. jem

    jem

    did you read this piezoe

     
    #162     Apr 28, 2014
  3. Hawking also thought the universe would collapse, time would run in reverse, and people would die before they were born. :D

    Could be God is. Which would make more sense than the universe conjuring itself into existence from nothing.
     
    #163     Apr 28, 2014
  4. jem

    jem

    this is the math and the science of penrose's - 10 to 10 to the 123.
    there is no issue with understand probability here.


    (from the Emperor’s New Mind, Penrose, pp 339-345 copyright 1989, Penguin Books)

    How special was the big bang?

    Let us try to understand just how much of a constraint a condition such as WEYL
    = 0 at the big bang was. For simplicity (as with the above discussion) we shall
    suppose that the universe is closed. In order to be able to work out some clear-cut
    figures, we shall assume, furthermore, that the number B of baryons-that is, the
    number of protons and neutrons, taken together-in the universe is roughly given by

    B = 10^80.

    (There is no particular reason for this figure, apart from the fact that,
    observationally B must be at least as large as this; Eddington once claimed to have
    calculated B exactly, obtaining a figure which was close to the above value!
    No-one seems to believe this particular calculation any more, but the value 10^80
    appears to have stuck.) If B were taken to be larger than this (and perhaps, in actual
    fact, B = infinity) then the figures that we would obtain would be even more
    striking than the extraordinary figures that we shall be arriving at in a minute!
    Try to imagine the phase space (cf. p. 177) of the entire universe! Each point in
    this phase space represents a different possible way that the universe might have
    started off. We are to picture the Creator, armed with a `pin' which is to be placed
    at some point in the phase space (Fig. 7.19 not shown). Each different positioning of
    the pin provides a different universe. Now the accuracy that is needed for the Creator's
    aim depends upon the entropy of the universe that is thereby created. It would be
    relatively `easy' to produce a high entropy universe, since then there would be a
    large volume of the phase space available for the pin to hit. (Recall that the entropy
    is proportional to the logarithm of the volume of the phase space concerned.) But
    in order to start off the universe in state of low entropy-so that there will indeed be
    a second law of thermodynamics-the Creator must aim for a much tinier volume of
    the phase space. How tiny would this region be, in order that a universe closely
    resembling the one in which we actually live would be the result? In order to
    answer this question, we must first turn to a very remarkable formula, due to Jacob
    Bekenstein (1972) and Stephen Hawking (1975), which tells us what the entropy
    of a black hole must be.

    Consider a black hole, and suppose that its horizon's surface area is A. The
    Bekenstein-Hawking formula for the black hole's entropy is the:

    Sbh = A/4 + (kc^3 / Gh)

    where k is Boltzmann's constant, c is the speed of light, G is Newton's gravitational
    constant, and h is Planck's constant over 2pi. The essential part of this formula is the
    A/4. The part in parentheses merely consists of the appropriate physical constants.
    Thus, the entropy of a black hole is proportional to its surface area. For a
    spherically symmetrical black hole, this surface area turns out to be proportional to
    the square of the mass of the hole

    A = m^2 x 8pi(G^2/c^4).

    Putting this together with the Bekenstein-Hawking formula, we find that the
    entropy of a black hole is proportional to the square of its mass:

    Sbh = m^2 x 2pi (kG/hc)

    Thus, the entropy per unit mass of a black hole is proportional to its mass, and so
    gets larger and larger for larger and larger black holes. Hence, for a given amount
    of mass-or equivalently, by Einstein's E = mc^2, for a given amount of energy-the
    greatest entropy is achieved when the material has all collapsed into a black hole!
    Moreover, two black holes gain (enormously) in entropy when they mutually
    swallow one another up to produce a single united black hole! Large black holes,
    such as those likely to be found in galactic centres, will provide absolutely
    stupendous amounts of entropy-far and away larger than the other kinds of entropy
    that one encounters in other types of physical situation.
    There is actually a slight qualification needed to the statement that the greatest
    entropy is achieved when all the mass is concentrated in a black hole. Hawking's
    analysis of the thermodynamics of black holes, shows that there should be a
    non-zero temperature also associated with a black hole. One implication of this is
    that not quite all of the mass-energy can be contained within the black hole, in the
    maximum entropy state, the maximum entropy being achieved by a black hole in
    equilibrium with a `thermal bath of radiation'. The temperature of this radiation is
    very tiny indeed for a black hole of any reasonable size. For example, for a black
    hole of a solar mass, this temperature would be about 10^-7 K, which is somewhat
    smaller than the lowest temperature that has been measured in any laboratory to
    date, and very considerably lower than the 2.7 K temperature of intergalactic space.
    For larger black holes, the Hawking temperature is even lower!
    The Hawking temperature would become significant for our discussion only if
    either: (i) much tinier black holes, referred to as mini-black holes, might exist in our
    universe; or (ii) the universe does not recollapse before the Hawking evaporation
    time-the time according to which the black hole would evaporate away completely.
    With regard to (i), mini-black holes could only be produced in a suitably chaotic big
    bang. Such mini-black holes cannot be very numerous in our actual universe, or
    else their effects would have already been observed; moreover, according to the
    viewpoint that I am expounding here, they ought to be absent altogether. As regards
    (ii), for a solar-mass black hole, the Hawking evaporation time would be some
    10^54 times the present age of the universe, and for larger black holes, it would be
    considerably longer. It does not seem that these effects should substantially modify
    the above arguments.
    To get some feeling for the hugeness of black-hole entropy, let us consider what
    was previously thought to supply the largest contribution to the entropy of the
    universe, namely the 2.7 K black-body background radiation. Astrophysicists had
    been struck by the enormous amounts of entropy that this radiation contains, which
    is far in excess of the ordinary entropy figures that one encounters in other
    processes (e.g. in the sun). The background radiation entropy is something like
    10^8 for every baryon (where I am now choosing `natural units', so that
    Boltzmann's constant, is unity). (In effect, this means that there are 10^8 photons in
    the background radiation for every baryon.) Thus, with 10^88 baryons in all, we
    should have a total entropy of

    10^88
     
    #164     Apr 28, 2014
  5. jem

    jem

    continued....

    or the entropy in the background radiation in the universe.
    Indeed, were it not for the black holes, this figure would represent the total
    entropy of the universe, since the entropy in the background radiation swamps that
    in all other ordinary processes. The entropy per baryon in the sun, for example, is of
    order unity. On the other hand, by black-hole standards, the background radiation
    entropy is utter `chicken feed'. For the Bekenstein-Hawking formula tells us that the
    entropy per baryon in a solar mass black hole is about 10^20, in natural units, so
    had the universe consisted entirely of solar mass black holes, the total figure would
    have been very much larger than that given above, namely

    10^100.

    Of course, the universe is not so constructed, but this figure begins to tell us how
    `small' the entropy in the background radiation must be considered to be when the
    relentless effects of gravity begin to be taken into account.
    Let us try to be a little more realistic. Rather than populating our galaxies
    entirely with black holes, let us take them to consist mainly of ordinary stars-some
    10^11 of them-and each to have a million (i.e. 10^6) solar-mass black-hole at its
    core (as might be reasonable for our own Milky Way galaxy). Calculation shows
    that the entropy per baryon would now be actually somewhat larger even than the
    previous huge figure, namely now 10^21, giving a total entropy, in natural units, of

    10^101.

    We may anticipate that, after a very long time, a major fraction of the galaxies'
    masses will be incorporated into the black holes at their centres. When this
    happens, the entropy per baryon will be 10^31, giving a monstrous total of

    10^111.

    However, we are considering a closed universe so eventually it should recollapse;
    and it is not unreasonable to estimate the entropy of the final crunch by using the
    Bekenstein-Hawking formula as though the whole universe had formed a black
    hole. This gives an entropy per baryon of 10^43, and the absolutely stupendous
    total, for the entire big crunch would be

    10^123.

    This figure will give us an estimate of the total phase-space volume V available
    to the Creator, since this entropy should represent the logarithm of the volume of
    the (easily) largest compartment. Since 10^123 is the logarithm of the volume, the
    volume must be the exponential of 10^123, i.e.

    V = 10^10^123.

    in natural units! (Some perceptive readers may feel that I should have used the
    figure e^10^123, but for numbers of this size, the a and the 10 are essentially
    interchangeable!) How big was the original phase-space volume W that the Creator
    had to aim for in order to provide a universe compatible with the second law of
    thermodynamics and with what we now observe? It does not much matter whether
    we take the value
    W = 10^10^101 or W = 10^10^88
    given by the galactic black holes or by the background radiation, respectively, or a
    much smaller (and, in fact, more appropriate) figure which would have been the
    actual figure at the big bang. Either way, the ratio of V to W will be, closely

    V/W = 10^10^123.

    This now tells us how precise the Creator's aim must have been: namely to an
    accuracy of one part in 10^10^123.



    there more --- where I pasted this on a previous thread.
     
    #165     Apr 28, 2014
  6. piezoe

    piezoe

    I should clarify before the flame throwers get heated up, that Einstein said on at least one occasion that he was not an atheist. And yet when asked if he believed in God, or a God, he steadfastly refused to give a simple straight forward answer. He had much to say about religion and the concept of God, or better put, "concepts of God," and he used the word God as a figure of speech on many occasions. Yet, when one reads what he actually wrote and said, there can be no doubt that he was, in fact, an atheist.
     
    #166     Apr 28, 2014
  7. stu

    stu

    There always is more, that's all you do. Paste and troll to draw faulty conclusions which you never address. This is where you paste and troll, troll and paste.
     
    #167     Apr 28, 2014
  8. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    You might want to tell him. Since he emphatically stated on more than one occasion that he was NOT an atheist.

    Or maybe you're implying Einstein didn't know the difference? :D
     
    #168     Apr 28, 2014
  9. He was being politically correct just as some of the founding fathers were. And just as many do now in life just to get along with the radical judgemental Christians in America. The churches are packed with people who no more believe the living inside a fish story than they do the moon is made of cheese story.
     
    #169     Apr 28, 2014
  10. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    In the early to mid 20th century? Einstein tell you that himself did he?
     
    #170     Apr 28, 2014