I don't recall stating that you would be responsible for making me profitable. On the other hand, no one in their right mind (to use your phrase) would pay good money merely for the possibility that something they may receive in return might have some unascertainable future value. Which is why I asked if we were negotiating. This what traders do, of course: they step really close to the line to try to get a bite at a price that makes it easy for them to turn a quick profit. That works great in a liquid market where getting in and out can be accomplished in a matter of seconds. But, in ordinary negotiations with people, both sides have to have a reasonable basis for determining value. Ergo, the tax returns.
For some reason doctors and lawyers, in my experience, comprise a good portion of the "get-rich-quick" crowd I have come into contact with. When I was younger, I was pitched Amway by none other than a doctor I knew (needless to say my respect for this person diminished soon there after). Funny how that is. I'd also add athletes to your list of successful types and engineers to the unsuccessful. Just my experience. Good Luck!
And yet those you describe are the very people who make book and seminar vendors like Larry Williams rich. I wonder if LW was on Don Bright's list and, if so, whether he had to be...culled. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1718988#post1718988
I always say this in every thread and people disregard it, but eh... Before people flame me, it's basically how I got to where i am, and it's what works for me... and this is how I learned. just take the 10k, open up an account with a good prop firm, get a decent commission rate. Limit yourself to $50/day in losses and trade 100 shares. Learn to scalp. Try to go in and out as many times as possible, and focus strictly on the time & sales and order books. Don't trade stocks over $70-80ish, find stocks with volume under 2-3 million so that the noise doesn't confuse you, and limit losses to 5-10 cents MAX. You won't know what you're doing for a while, but if you stick to those loss limits, you'll be able to last 10 months where every day you max out your loss before going out of the game. You will have losing days where you don't max out and you will have winning days, so with that risk management plan, you can stay in the game long enough to learn it. Look for stocks that are moving and have nice wide ranges, and focus on the time and sales and the order books. The chart lacks the detail that the time & sales gives you - the detail necessary for a true edge. If you decide learning the proper way (instead of paying someone to spoon feed you something that must be eaten witn your own hands) and follow my plan, I'll help you for free. Show me two months of runs doing what I said, and after that, pick one two trades daily of yours which you have a specific question about, and I will answer the question. A specific question isn't "was this a good trade," but "i figured after I lifted that .50 offer, it should immediately go .60 bid, but no one who was short seemed to be panicking, why not, it looked the same as what happened two hours ago a point down...". And no, I won't show you my tax returns. If you stare at the tape long enough it will make sense. The same shit happens every single day time and time again. But you need the will to want to do it that badly, and the discipline to stick to the max loss rules I said, as well as to cut losers to a few cents and you will make it. At the end of your trading days, review all your trades and watch the price action again. Go through time & sales scrolling, or use a video recording program like Camtasia to record your LII/TAS and review review review. Please people don't flame me because your style is different than mine and you think what I'm saying is bad advice. I'm genuinely trying to help the guy with what I know. I'm profitable.
I won't flame you. I've pretty much done everything you've described above except that I did it from home. The problem, in my experience is the "decent commission rate" and getting credible executions, assuming that you find a decent rate (which goes to the issue of the "good prop shop"). So, perhaps you can quantify both of the above for me.
Good post NYOB. I agree with everything you say here except I would substitute futures for stocks. Just stick to one contract, preferably the ES. But everyone is different so stocks are better for some folks. "Review, review, review." <<<------ spot on!
That's fine if you did it from home. He gave you good advice. Use a broker like Tuco, Bright, Echo etc...you shouldn't pay more than .005 comm plus fees as a beginner.