I see vas62 already authenticated the post http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112209&perpage=6&pagenumber=24
His viewpoint is not only the best, it is the ONLY viewpoint there is. * Impressive post NYOB. Thanks.
kjkent1 - save your money even if a daytrader that made 10k a day showed you how he did it.........you wouldn't be able to replicate his success any more than you'd be able to replicate A-Rods swing if A-Rod himself showed you.........not even with 10 years practice would you be able to do it........just the mere fact that most traders trade discretionary means there is a lot of subjectivity involved that cannot be taught......as far as the objective principals involved with trading and swinging a bat - these are well known for decades...no secrets out there.
The talking heads on the media Have many "tells" tha explain why they say and do what they do. The same is true for traders and for those who post. For me, I just plug into the 13 tip jacks on everyone's hypothetical "performance box". Think of it an testing an individuals "black box" by looking for the "tells" in 13 specific places. Each one gets a go(yes)/no rating. The "0" tip jack is the baggage and garbage observation point. Even if a person has an open mind, it may not be possible for a "go" rating. Three people with overpowering B and G are: rcanfiel, T dog and increasenow. Throw in kidpwrtrader as well. 1 through 9 are trader equipment classifiers. I sequenced them by the usual growing aspects of becoming a trader. The "1" tip jack is being able to see the markets. The tell is the platform information. Multiplatforms are a must for a go. The 2 is the approach to the market. Words are the "tells". The "compete" tell is a no and when I see "extract" I know the person has made the shift. Search Bright's recent posts to see his explanation of going from compete to extract. Tip jack 3 is "having to be in the market to make money". People either talk about the "market" or they talk about the "edge". Edge people aren't in the markets very much so they get a no. Most people can understand my comments and can see that each facet enters the picture and goes along parallel to the formerly mentioned ones. Now we have "go's" who have little B and G (open minds), multiple platforms working, noncompetitors who are extracting what the market offers. we are way past talking heads with closed minds, no monitors running and no trades being done to take trades to extract from the markets. 6 more to go and then we can plug into the three last tip jacks that explain the ranges of performance. Number 4, the "right" side of the market. Being right is not what I mean. If you have to be right rather than rich you are a no. Surfer is the example here. The tell is "trend". People either trade the trend or fight it whithout knowing it is there opposing them. The rest of the tip jacks are counter intuitive it turns out. Most people learn to win and do that by competing. extracting has nothing to do with these things. Market mode (tip jack 5) is where the rubber meets the road and it has little to do with supply and demand. S and D only explain one side of the market mode. The only thing that disqualifies people from Medicare is end stage renal disease. If a person has to ask, he doesn't have it. If you do not know what market mode is, you don't have it and are a NO. If supply is in control then the mode is "continue"; if demand is in control then you have continue. Both are hold periods for making money. The other mode is "change" which is relatively brief and it is the time profits are taken and the time when one trend over laps another trend: the old trend and the new trend. NO's go to those who do not know continue, change and overlap. Give Pring a No since he hasn't dealt with overlap as yet. Give Oliver a no , too. The market operates in a range of fractals (7) simultaneously. A Go knows that he needs to keep track of three (tip jack 6): one above and below and the trading fractal he trades on. Naturally, there are 8 combinations of about everything that relates to a given fractal when possibilites are considered for the three fractals which must be observed. consider L and S. Take them three at a time and see the 8 possibilities that range from L, L, L to S, S, S and every combo in between. Chose yes or no for this one; you get a yes if you take complete data sets and know, that the finite set of 8 cominations for each element, when combined with all the other 8 combos in your data set elements, is rather large and finite and always has the same specific result of analysis. TJ 6 is a no for most on ET. Tip jack 7 is making money, the "hold" tip jack. Here is where indicators really groove. data sets are required, of course. Give yourself a no if you are a single elent of data "freakout" trader. Also if you use words like suddenly or surprise, give yourself a no. By now it is possible to see that not many people become traders. some traders are called breakeven traders. Others are blow out people. Use Nitro as the example of this type of person. He programs many many independent trading models, all of which are subject to the induction of the Black Swan. Bighog got to profitability in a mear 300k of losses (including a wife). He is getting ready for the next black swan too. tip jack 8 is the window. It is the ability to observe the "change" mode using indicators and data sets. Think of how a person recognizes the "end" of every pattern. This is half the story of TJ 8. The other half is recognizing the end of every HOLD. Can you do Both? if not then you give yourself a no. for manual trading, this is all you look for as the day goes by. If you aren't in the window you are holding the trade. If you are in the window, then tip jack 9 is on the table. TJ 9 is carve the turn. You have a multitude of confirming signals simultaneuosly pouring across the screen for carving the turn. TJ's 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 simply drive you ti TJ 9 where you simultaneuosly take profits and begin the next leg of profits. TJ 9 is where people talk , have tells, that say they recognize that every exit is also an entry in the opposite direction. Joe Ross gets a no here, his tell is a ratio of consolidations to trends type talk; he simply misses the boat with no yesses on a lot of TJ's. TJ 0 is B and G. TJ's 1 through 9 show whether a person makes it to profitability. Lets use three more TJ's to evaluate this performance. TJ 10 is time in market. Do a % of the day. the tells are cool here. Look for the word "daily target", look also for money management, risk and stops. All of these things are specifically designed to keep a person out of the market. Ohhhh, look at all of the emotional commentary. It is two sided. Out of the market talk is fear, aniety and anger. See T28, trader666 and thunderdog and rcanfield. These people have all proven staying out of the market is best in every way possible. In the market talk is humor, support, fun, confidence and comfort. "I was in the market everyday for 5% of the time" is a losing comment. When will rcanfield ask: "What % of the day does your edge keep you in the market?" TJ11 is the double days #. That is, how many days does it take to double your money. TJ11 has a buddy: what multiple of the ATR do you make on average. Buddy's little bro is what % of the ATR do you make a day? TJ12 the last and final is ROI. It ties capital to earnings. Not many people do this one. P&L is it's little BRO since it doesn't say anything. Capital involved is part of performance. the no people here are the one's using the tells of "unbelievable" and "astonishing". Well it is, if all your TJ's are no's. 13 tip jacks and a tells meter to plug into the TJ's. every post each person makes is a recording on the tells meter. when you read the posting history all the tells show up one way or another. When one person reads another person's tipjacks, sometimes they get angry and incensed. that is going to happen simply because the person is "right" and he is getting readings that are not possible in his small world. Don said it and does it. He puts people with good readings next to people who are building their performance.
As you point out, mentoring isn't a money deal. Certainly, I asked for his financials; I just wanted to see if he was making any significant contributions. Fortunately I got ingnored... lol... As Spyder pointed out; the real deal is if he could pass it forward to others and if he could recognize and contribute to his community. I chatted with an elderly person Monday. His wife had three weeks od dialysis (40K a week) and spent a couple of weeks in a hospital (240K). Her last crocheted quilt didn't get done until her daughters finished it; Now our kitty cats luv to perch on our laps when its cool in the evening; we have the quilt for reasons that come from being helpful to others in ways that we can because of our orientation to things. What would it take for this guy Kent to "get it" for learning to trade? What would it take for him to "get it" to pass it forward? To orient away from himself and to helping others? I liked the suggestion that he buy someone a beer. I can't imagine the formality of the deal this guy would try to cut to learn to trade. JJ can you imagine bundling this guys account into a real trading account and spraying him with money for about 90 days? He needs to have the experience and then just write a check to the Salvation Army for the profits.
Fella's this guy was never looking for someone to teach him to become profitable. His whole thing was to be argumentative and say that since no one ever sent their tax returns to him (stupid fuxxing request) that no one on this site is profitable. The guy's lawyer....whaddya expect?
some points 1) just because one is a good (ie successful trader) does NOT mean one is a good, or will be a good mentor. by mentor, i mean a TRAINER - somebody who can teach you how to trade successfully. a good trader might help you out, but being good at anything does not mean you have the skills to TEACH. TEACHING is a skillset that is seperate from what subject one is teaching. there are brilliant people in all sorts of fields who are terrible teachers. 2) "All a mentor can do is tell you you're wasting time looking at the wrong things. " this is rubbish. a good mentor can give you the tools to be a successful trader 3) audited performance: i've mentored people and i have never provided any of this stuff. it's simply not necessary, nor is it sufficient to prove (as above) that one is a good TEACHER 4) trading is a profession. in most professions, people understand the importance of and are willing to pay for an education from people experienced in the field. trading is a big exception. people jump into the markets thinking they can do it. and lose tons of money. one is WAY WAY better off paying a mentor, learning what you need to do to trade successully, etc. if you invest X thousand dollars in training and learn you just don't have what it takes - here's a hint: many don't have what it takes, you will still spend less most probably than you will waste on trading trying to learn through losing money. 5) most retail traders lose money. most retail traders use stoch-macd-rsi-moving averages, etc. etc. maybe these are NOT the tools to be a successful futures trader (i certainly don't use them). 6) trading is a profession (see: 4). there is FAR FAR FAR more to running a successful professional business than the trading setups you use