France (especially the south) can be a great place, the taxes are terrible though if you're wealthy. I have no doubt though that US taxes will be similar within 10 years time as it converges (downhill) with Europe
Everyone is working hard these days and no one is indispensable. Many doctors are in debt from trying to super-size their lifestyle (2nd homes, fancy cars and expensive country clubs). They could not afford to quit, its just a vulgar threat to scare people - like a policeman saying that he is not going to protect you if he doesn't get more money. Health care costs have grown far faster than inflation in the US. This is one of the reasons why many jobs have been offshored and people are unemployed. The gilded age for doctors will soon be over.
I agree they should cut a lot of excessive pension funding, cut a lot of unemployment benefits and generally get taxes down. Funny thing is their corporate tax rate is lower. But I'm not at all saying France is better than the US or anything like that. They happen to have a great health care system, and since ours is broken we should look to the better alternatives. And their health care system costs half what ours costs overall.
Doctor's salries have not even come close to keeping up with inflation. Health cares cost might have risen, but that is not from an increase in Doctor's Salries. Each and every person has their breaking point. You are making a very dangerous assumption that you can continue to bash doctors and the money they make, while assuming that you will not lose them or a significant portion of them. Lets just say that we socialize everything, and I am told that I will only make 75k a year. Ok that is fine, I would not expect the 60-80 hour work week, or even the all night calls. There would be no financial incentive for me to make those sacrifices. Therefore, it would be a significant reduction in my productivity. The argument that I would work the same long hours for say 100k does not hold because the longer I work the more incentive I will need, and 25k would not justify the extra hardship. Socialism does not bring out the best in people. People start trying to avoid excelling in order to survive by doing the bare minimum. Unfortunately, this is what Obama and other want. They might get it, but it will lower the well being and the drive of all people. Regards,
I was a professional day trader (prop) for 5 years after college and started medical school one year ago. So I thought I'd blab a little... I'm only a year in so don't know anything really, but what I do know is that I miss day trading a lot -- why? Probably the freedom + limitless income. The people who became doctors a generation ago, I am guessing, were a lot more like the people who become good traders today. People who gravitate toward a roofless income generating job. To get a sense of how older doctors feel, I imagine if day trading all of a sudden became more like an hourly office job -- pardon my french, but that would fucking suck... Yet, the fact that doctors provide a service to people, are humane, and considering all the opportunities that come with an M.D., plus the decent expected salary of > 150k, makes the doctor track seem like a wise move. But the hours, the having a boss or the like your whole life, and the years of training are not appealing -- yet here I am pushing myself into it, doing fine, and sometimes enjoying it -- but often missing trading big time. And -- There are lots of 50 year old doctors but what happens to professional day traders at 40 years old anyway? Any doctor-traders on the board who feel like giving me advice, I'll take it -- private message me if you feel the urge.
Personally it frightens me to think that my doctor might have worked frantically for 80 hours in one week. Truck drivers aren't allowed to work more than 60 hours a week. So doctors should be? Meanwhile I've read that doctors have attributed 41% of errors to fatigue. I saw a study once that demonstrated how lay people with only minimal training but ample time were able to out-diagnose fully trained doctors who were rushed. I'm leaving out specifics b/c my memory is failing me, but the point seems clear. It always frightens me when I have some bump and the doctor glances at it for less than a second and says no it's nothing, esp when a friend's fiance had a bump and the doctors said it was nothing but it turned out to be a melanoma which later metastasized and now he's going to die. I can't help but wonder if the outcome would have been different had the doctors been able to really take their time and not been rushed and fatigued. I'm not saying we don't have some great doctors, obviously we do. And no one is suing the doctors who missed the melanoma, btw. At the very least the state should pay for free medical training to raise the number of doctors. Obviously the insurance situation is insane. And incentives for doctors to be over-worked to the point of exhaustion seem misplaced to say the least unless, of course, there's a shortage of doctors... Now if doctors can make so much why is there a shortage of them? Free medical school would pay off very quickly I think.
yeah right. Doctors are not netting $100k here in Socal. You fail to address doctors' personal overhead with houses, lifestyle, MBZ, BMWs etc. A good swimming pool cleaner might make $100k/year. We used to have doctors & dentists as investors in deals & they are the most arrogant bastards in the world - just above attorneys. The docs would focus on one number in a proforma & miss the whole picture. on and on about one number - totally missing the important stuff. Doctors work hard & have overhead - tough shit... so does every other business, but maybe I manage better b/c I dont have 50K in the etched glass front doors to my office, I don't drive a $150k car & I dont have a house on the beach & a ski chalet on Lakeshore Drive in Incline Village. Alot of doctors are dopes & MD to MBA just makes me laugh - I ain't saying they aren't intelligent & educated, I'm just saying that many of them are just dopes. We built an office building in a beach community in South Bay area of L.A. & we were trying to get a dentist to move in. The fucking retard wanted us to try & rip out his 30-year old SHIT cabinets & formica counters in his existing office & re-install them in his brand new suite.
1) I work many hours missing out on great family life at home. 2) I sacrificed my 20's just to get the the point that I can start my carear. 3) I hear how Doctors need to get taxed more from obama and how the government want to push a universal coverage with a payment schedule that is net revenue negative (it is so low). 4) Potential high risk working environment with dangerous viruses that can kill you if exposed. -------------------------------------------------- If there anyone here with a successful biz that hasnt dealt with 1 & 2, & a variation of gov't change & interference for #3? Okey #4.... anyone here know any docs that died from their patients vs vice-versa? Shit, the proposed trader tax would put most scalpers outta biz! Earth to M.D. - grow up & stop fucking whining
you should have signed that post "AMA" how many doctors wait until 42 yo to buy a house? answer: not many. So when you get a chance, ask your pediatric orthopedic surgeon buddy how much he makes $/hour in surgery.
I have to agree. I just can't feel bad for doctors. They should have known what they were in for before they started med school. And as a previous poster stated, they'll always be in demand. They really don't have to worry about outsourcing like an engineer, a programmer, or an accountant. Medical school is entirely too expensive though for the amount of money they can expect to make very early on in their career. However, I don't know of any doctors who didn't retire without at least a couple million in the bank.