Do you see patterns in Random Walks?

Discussion in 'Technical Analysis' started by atlTrader666, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. Of course.

    The market isn't random. Its a chaotic system. I.e. it is a highly nonlinear system that has feedback loops which exist sometimes and other times seem to not exist. These sort of systems appear random, but are not.

    The issue is that human beings are not always rational. They act inconsistently many times, however sometimes they act together when they get scared, or confident. Then you have groups of humans in corporations, or banks, or investment firms acting as one unit which also drive prices. The problem is that no human is the same as the next, and no human group is the same as the next, and human beings drive the market. Furthermore, not every human being has the same information at any given time, and even if they were totally rational it would be impossible to duplicate eachothers actions.

    If you were to model the universe and the minds of human beings you would be able to completely predict the market's move.

    The best way to look at the market is using nonlinear dynamics paired with probability and statistics. This is also known as "chaos theory". Most traders are on the "Fractal" side today, however I actually believe this is the best starting point in spite of having limited concrete evidence myself. Empirically, you can look at any timeframe in the market and if you ignore the time-stamps or make it so you can't see what timeframe you are in, you cannot tell the difference many times between 1 minute timeframe and 1 day timeframe. This is a symptom of the market being "fractal".

    Take a look at Fractal dimension indicators. As the dimension approaches 1.5 the signal approaches the same measure of dimension as total randomness. As a signal approaches a fractal dimension of 1 they tend to be trending, and as a signal approaches a fractal dimension of 2 it tends to by cyclic.

    Check out this link for a good basic starting point :

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/cogsci/chaos/workshop/Fractals.html

    Then check out this book for theory that will help you understand the market scientifically :

    http://www.amazon.com/Fractal-Geome...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
     
    #361     Sep 1, 2011
  2. Even mathematicians and some other scientists, who use a form of language called "mathematics" to understand reality, realize its an approximation to reality. There are paradoxes that exist which do not makes much sense using our "math" language. There's even something called "Godel's Incompleteness Theorem" which states an uncountably infinite number of axioms exist in any system of mathematical logic. Axioms are things accepted as true that enable your math to work. The biggest one is the "Axiom of Choice", however many logicians and mathematicians do not accept it as truth and formulate their own alternative system.

    However, the system we have made a consensus on is still the best approximation we have to understanding reality, and even being imperfect it enables us to build GPS satellites, transfer data via electromagnetic waves, and calculate things on a computer a human mind would take several lifetimes to calculate.
     
    #362     Sep 1, 2011
  3. What were you? An art PhD? Try for a minute to realize that there is a universe out there that exists which is not totally understood, and then stretch your mind for a minute to realize that many people came before you and spent their whole lives studying it and discovering things you do not currently understand nor could you understand all of it even if you had two lifetimes. A PhD is about studying as much of it as you can. Try learning a mathematical discipline sometime and then get back to me. The methods used in indicators you take for granted in trading were essentially invented 400-4000 years ago. Imagine what people invented today that could be applied to trading? My specialty in grad school was wavelets and image processing. Many so called "traders" or "quants" implement wavelet methods without even understanding what they really are. Maybe if they tried to educate themselves in science and saw what it would do for them (even if it shows them what not to use) they wouldn't be such anti-intellectuals.
     
    #363     Sep 1, 2011
  4. I am the previous post I believe you are mentioning. I am indeed a math major grad student. I work for a trading PLATFORM company which is broker independent. I mainly do coding support. However, I trade Forex myself moderately successfully. I make more than I lose, and spent quite awhile working for a private account making about 20 percent a year returns (it was a team effort, I just coded things). Anyway, the anti-intellectualism is what I wanted to address. I am sort of over-the-top sometimes when it comes to needing to express my opinion, but I get tired of coming here for information and seeing nothing but dilettantes making up lies about what it is to be a graduate student. I know what its like, because I am one. I am not trying to piss on anyone's credentials, experience, etc. I am just trying to gather information and share some in a mutually respectful environment.
     
    #364     Sep 1, 2011
  5. Why don't you piss off and get into a forum covering the topic you want to cover? This is a topic about seeing patterns in random walks, and it developed into more of a conversation about theory. There is no need to be a prick, dickhead.
     
    #365     Sep 1, 2011
  6. I see you missed the short bus too. No need to slobber all over me, I'm Richard, they call me Dick the 13th. Must be the inches. Like that pattern?.
     
    #366     Sep 1, 2011
  7. It has been said before, look at the Price-Step plane and check for a normal distribution.
     
    #367     Sep 1, 2011
  8. How much to bring me a cappuccino from the italian bar?.:p
     
    #368     Sep 1, 2011
  9. Samsara

    Samsara

    Certainly, no disagreement there.
     
    #369     Sep 1, 2011
  10. Samsara

    Samsara

    Excellent suggestion and post, in my opinion.
     
    #370     Sep 1, 2011