Discussion in 'Trading' started by BertH, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. Aw C'mon,
    Let me tear into this guy, maybe just a couple of F bombs. Just kidding of course. In the words of Triumph the Comic Insult Dog, I agree this is a nice thread... FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!
    Keep up the great posts gentlemen, and have a wonderful day.


    William Rennick, Esquire
    #41     Jul 19, 2006
  2. How do you change your own self concept ? Would you explain what it is, why we should change it and what steps should be taken to change it ?
    #42     Jul 19, 2006
  3. nkhoi

    nkhoi Moderator

    try this;

    1) open you favorite chart with your favorite time frame.
    2) narrow down number of indicators
    3) scroll back the chart and mark would've, could've setups
    as many as you like.
    4) from that select the most repeatable would've, could've set up.
    5) in the day a head look for the same setup, nothing else
    6) mark the setup as soon as you think you see it or even after the fact
    7) at end of day review your mark and see how many you get it right.
    8) keep doing this marking until you get sick of it
    9) take the trade when the setup scream out for you

    ps. and it takes on average about 6 years to make it, even Mark Cook said so.
    #43     Jul 19, 2006
  4. Aint that the truth.

    Thought I saw you post somewhere else earlier, WB Holmes.
    #44     Jul 19, 2006
  5. ==============
    Like that, 13 is a fibonacci number:cool: ;
    & it's easy to miss things, even important things. Spotted something in ES this month , never noticed in years.

    And with 5-6 years to average profit;
    seems like most men think we are ALL above average. Stats dont work like that, some will be average , some below average .
    :cool: Good school grades /other pro skills smay not help at all.
    #45     Jul 19, 2006
  6. Pretty good posts indeed. I agree there is no Holy Grail, or at least it's not a Trading System with specific rules that any TooL could follow. Good Money Management should be common sense for traders, but far too often it isn't. So, I just wanted to point out a few things my earlier post didn't mention.

    I am not worried about money while I trade. I trade like it's a game. Some times I win, sometimes I lose, but you can never be in a trade because you need the money. That's when people start trying to will the market to do things that it just refuses to do. I have had some pretty good trading days, only to find out at the end of the day that I was down $50. "Oh well, I followed the rules and it should have been worse." I have had days where I thought I had traded terribly and assumed I'd lost $$$ only to later find out I was up $50. "Damn, if I had followed the rules this could have been a good day." Look at it this way, Surgeons are not thinking about how much money they are making while they conduct a procedure, they're concentrating on making sure the surgery goes as planned and they stay prepared in case it doesn't. They're not worried about money while they work, so why should you?

    Another big thing you have to understand in order to make it in trading is Personal Finance. Many good traders have run out of capital in a matter of months, because they didn't have their own personal finances in order. Just because you made $15,000 in May, does not mean you should go and buy a $1M house. Sure, you could have afforded the mortgage payment in May, but you have to be prepared not only to not turn profits in June, July, and August, but you have to be prepared to lose February, March, and April's profits too. It's hopefully just a worse case scenario, but how many times has the Dealer in our lives dealt us the wrong hands at the wrong times?

    I try to live of of 1/4 of what I gross, so my goal for the first week of every month is to make enough to pay the bills (Even after taking the summer off from trading, I've still got my living expenses covered through the end of 2006) After making what I need to survive on, everything else is relatively stress free. If I have a down month, I tighten up spending significantly, I don't put it off until later down the road, because later down the road might be even worse than the current bad month. On the flip, I bank every bit of the excess $$$ from really strong months. I don't go and blow a bunch of money on stuff I wouldn't have been able to afford in a normal month.

    Unfortunately a lot of traders don't understand these things, and when I am telling someone that they just don't "Get It", I'm not referring to how they have or haven't been trading, I'm referring to the whole picture of trading that they just don't see. This is the Sistine Chapel, and many of the people looking at the Art of Trading think they can "see it all" in just one painting in a hallway, and they never look for anything else. "I saw a brochure, I know all about it." I still haven't seen all of the art, and I really don't think very many ever have seen it all, but that doesn't mean I should quit searching.
    #46     Jul 19, 2006
  7. I found a short explanation of what I mean written by a fitness guy as per the attachment.

    There is much more to it, but I hope you get the picture.


    "Although your self-concept is deeply entrenched from years of conditioning, it CAN be changed. Before I explain the four steps to making the change, I want to explain self-concept using an analogy everyone can relate to - MONEY! Why money? Well, as I mentioned before, most people not only don’t understand the self-concept, they’re bored to death at the slightest mention of it.

    I’d hate to see you doze off before you get to the really juicy stuff later in this article, and since money is seldom a subject that bores anyone and it’s a common denominator between all people, let me explain the relationship between money and self-concept first. Once you see how self-concept affects how much money you earn, you’ll easily understand how it affects what kind of shape you’re in. You’ll then have enough awareness to begin changing your self-concept - and your body - for the better.

    Question: If you won a large sum of money, or if your annual income suddenly became your monthly income, how would you feel about it?

    “That would be AWESOME!” is what most people blurt out initially. I have news for you: As bizarre as this may sound, I guarantee that if your old self-concept was still locked in place, you’d do everything possible to get rid of your new-found wealth. You’d make bad business decisions. You’d be unsuccessful in sales. You’d have an uncontrollable urge to go out and spend the money, splurge on things you didn't need, invest in things you knew nothing about, lend to people who wouldn't give it back or even flat out lose it! Just look at what happens to most lottery winners.

    Even though everyone SAYS they’d like more money, that’s only on the conscious, surface level. The problem is, your behavior is NOT controlled by your conscious mind; your behavior is controlled on a deeper level - from your subconscious mind where your self-concept is located. If having a lot of money isn’t consistent with your self-concept, it will sooner or later lead to some form of sabotaging behavior to bring you back down to your comfort level.

    Most people stay inside a comfort zone that’s consistent with the concept and image they hold of themselves. They rarely rise above it or allow themselves to fall below it. Any time you try to make a change in your life, whether it’s losing fat or earning more money, it will stir up resistance inside you because you’re attempting to move beyond the safe, familiar and comfortable.

    To earn more money, you must see yourself as capable of earning more money and worthy of keeping it. If you see yourself as a $24,000 per YEAR person, you’ll NEVER earn and keep $24,000 per MONTH unless you see yourself as a $24,000 per month person."


    #47     Jul 19, 2006
  8. BertH


    optionpro, that sounds like mumbo-jumbo to some probably, but I actually think there's something to it. My uncle--fat as could be for much of his youth--lost a lot of weight at one point, even keeping it off for a year or so. Alas, he inevitably went back to the prior state, maybe even a bit bigger.
    Asked why he allowed himself to regain it all, he said "I always thought of myself deep down as a fat person."

    Having said that, I don't think that's an issue for me at this juncture. It's more to do with having confidence in a solid trading vehicle, along with possibly needing to accept more frequency (not necessarily size) of losses. A fellow trader who has some experience on me has told me I need to loosen the strings a bit, allow more breathing room for the stock. I tried that on a couple, and it drove me nuts.
    #48     Jul 19, 2006
  9. BCE


    Actually sitting on the beach sometimes is exactly what you need especially if you live here in Santa Barbara. :) I remember, not fondly, the several years I spent 15 hours a day doing this, 2001-2003. Don't ever do that. It runs you right into the ground and although you may learn a lot for future reference, you'll really trash your poor body. I used to get up at 4 AM, trade til 4 PM, have dinner, watch the news and maybe one other show, and then look at charts and read articles online for a few more hours. Take my advice, no matter how dedicated you are to being successful, this isn't the way to go about it. Let it go. Lead a balanced life. I should have spent more days sitting on the beach. The market's not going anywhere. It will always be there tomorrow with more opportunites. Just some thoughts. :)
    #49     Jul 19, 2006
  10. This is a great post, I totally concur.

    #50     Jul 19, 2006