Discussion (or maybe not) between Good1 and studentofthemarkets

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by studentofthemarkets, Nov 15, 2020.

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  1. Good1

    Good1

    Oh! Was this supposed to be a response to my earlier post filled with questions to help you analyze your decisions and motivations?

    This method of response makes it appear your decisions and motivations are now hidden behind a barrage of old texts that are launched like rockets from behind a concrete fortress a mile or two out of sight. The text is supposed to land in front of my face, explode, and dazzle me?

    The gospel (the actual good news that dispels a frightening hypnosis) addresses motives deep in one's heart, cutting through the textual defenses one weaponizes for the protection of one's hidden motives. I'm trying to help you understand those motives.

    Clearly, fear is one of the deepest motives that is getting you to repeat some texts like reading a teleprompter. I am suggesting that this fear, like a faulty foundation, disqualifies whatever framework of justification you wish to build upon it.

    Let me repeat: Duress disqualifies any contract made in fear.

    This disqualification should come as good news that sets your mind free to start thinking clearly. Under a state of fear, you cannot learn anything. You can only repeat a narrative that justifies the fear you feel, and goes on to justify the response to the fear you are feeling. In fear, you will even lie, to yourself, about how much fear you are feeling, how justified is your fear, or in a worst case scenario, claim you no longer have any fear, when your entire framework of though is built upon the occasion of fear.

    This is one reason i asked you to trace, to the day and to the minute, the moment you decided the entire collection of ethnic histories were entirely trustworthy as a reflection of any god that is actually Good. Your mind will be captivated (imprisoned) by the context of the text until you relinquish the fear that motivated you to swallow it whole in the first place.

    By tracing it to the day and the minute, you should also be able to see that it was your own mind, motivated by it's own motivations, that motivated you to decide to make proclamations about a collection of texts. I'm challenging you to take responsibility for your support of the text's own claims about itself.

    Texts that make claims for themselves are not unusual, and often false. For some reason, at the hour and minute of some day, you decided to make proclamations about it's proclamations. I'm suggesting you cannot hide behind it's proclamations for itself. The responsibility always falls back on you, at the day, the hour and the minute you made a choice. If that choice was in any way motivated by fear, i'm sorry, you are not qualified to make any kind of proclamation for any of the texts contained in the collection, let alone all the texts in the collection.

    Your analysis (repentance) must begin with "fear not".
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    #41     Dec 6, 2020
  2. Good1

    Good1

    Prepare, then, to become a pseudo lawyer, defending some pretty outrageous behavior, including, and especially, collective punishment.

    Any god can be made to seem righteous, if you lower your standard of goodness (of what is good) low enough.

    Finally, i'm suggesting you take responsibility for defending this claim. Don't hide behind the text. Just admit, straight up, that you think the god described therein is good enough to be called "righteous". This is your declaration. You should accept responsibility for it.

    I don't consider the god of this world, and the Father of Jesus to be the same entity. The god of this world is a lie. The Father of the "Son of Good" is the Truth. If like begets like, then yes, the Son of Good is also the Truth.

    Given this, what is man? Man is the product of the god of this world. If like begets like, then man is also a lie.

    If you wish to make claims on the truth, that it be either you or a collection of texts, you are going directly against the Truth, if it be a Living Being. Man and his books are dead, claiming to live. Both are lying.

    Eventually you'll understand that Jesus often talks about his True Self, not the flesh you think you can see with eyeballs. Nothing the eyeballs can show you is the Truth. The Truth is beyond what eyeballs can see, but not beyond the vision of one's right mind. You can only "see" Christ with knowledge directly infused into a once closed (darkened) mind.

    Ok, that would be, at best, the law of the god of this world.

    Ok that would be the god of this world.

    Ok that would be the offspring of the god of this world.

    This is called a deterrent in this world's judicial systems. Reciprocity is reasonable, given the alternative is too much, or too little response to this very serious offense.

    However, only the god of this world, and his magistrates, deal with crime and punishment. Participation in a world where there can be lies, is it's own worst punishment. Beyond your own voluntary participation, and the risks that go with it, there is no punishment coming from any god that is actually Good.

    Finally, by speaking of "false witnesses", you are implying that there is a true witness somewhere in this world, and/or that there is some "truth" to be had, somewhere in this world. This conflicts with what you said earlier, "I am the Truth".

    You seem not to understand (or care?) that Truth belongs, entirely and exclusively, to the True Being, what i sometimes call "Christ". You seem to think there are other truths, in addition to Christ, that can be had or found.

    I'm sorry to inform: in the world of crime and punishment, there is really no truth. It is extremely dark, meaning, you cannot see all the interconnections going on underneath the psychological surface of humanity. To that extent, you have no idea who is a victim, and who is victimized. To the extent you believe there are victims, you don't know the Truth.


    Eyeballs are not the Truth, nor do they ever see the Truth...ever. Teeth are not the Truth. Hands are not the Truth. Feet are not the Truth.

    All of these anatomical features are products of the god of this world, and are scheduled for destruction, regardless of criminal appearances. They will be destroyed as part of a kind of collective punishment, regardless one's apparent righteousness under the sun. Their destruction comes sooner or later, no matter the excuse, crime or no crime. Collective punishment does not care who you are.

    Furthermore, as a man, you are a false witness. Technically, you are claiming to "live", when in fact the quality of Life belongs entirely and exclusively to Christ. Your mere claim to existence (life), competes directly with Christ's own qualities, claiming them for your "self", as a man. This does make you a false witness, and probably justifies your destruction, in the mind of the god of this world.

    These claims put you in a very dangerous position, making you a target of the god of change, which is the god of this world. Change itself schedules you for destruction. Your destruction is built in to the systematic system, so-to-speak.

    Conversely, the only safe position is to be Christ. This is the position Jesus took, and it seems to have kept his Self safe from harm. The part that was not true vanished. His eyes cannot be punctured. His teeth cannot be broken. His feet cannot be nailed. He has overcome the arrows aimed by the god of this world toward all who bear false witness.

    In a world of crime and punishment, fear is a deterrent from politically unacceptable behavior. Regardless how reasonable or justified is the use of fear, wherever it seems needed or justified is not a world where there is any Truth. It means you are participating, voluntarily, in the wrong world. The fear, emanating out of the wrong world, can prevent you, your mind, from discovering the right world, the world of Christ...the only world that actually exists.

    Further, you can never arrive at the Truth, which is the Right World, through behavioral modification, which is carrot and stick. The World of Christ is not run with carrot and stick (reward versus risk of harm), containing no trace of fear on the one side, or need for more (a reward) on the other. In the World of Christ, there are no bodies with which to behave or otherwise act. There is no acting or behaving, there is only being.

    Fear implies there is a decision to be made in which there is risk of loss on the one side, or potential for gain on the other. Both of these concepts are irrelevant and even impossible within the Being of Christ (= World of Christ). Christ cannot gain more than is already owned (what Christ already is), nor can Christ lose anything that is already owned (what Christ already is). Therefore there is no "risk" in Being Christ.

    If you feel fear, it means you have agreed with certain illegitimate principles and concepts. All such principles, laws and concepts are null and void in the presence of Christ. Whatever contracts you may feel compelled to comply with, they are cancelled if ever you come close to the Knowledge of Christ. The "old testament" are the contracts you have agreed with. These are very dark contracts running sub-surface to human consciousness, according to the design of the god of this world. You have an agreement with the god of this world. It involves fear, and is thus null and void upon the Appearance of the Truth.

    It is the judgement of faith you fear, and perhaps not without some evidence that justifies your fear. Faith is indeed dangerous, and results in a lot of pain and suffering, indeed all of the world's pain and suffering.

    Your relationship to the god of this world is tighter than you even suspect, at the moment. It's faith, and your faith are intertwined. You believe what it believes, since you are made with it's faith (in it's own imagination) in it's likeness. Your faith, and it's faith are intertwined, and did i mention faith is dangerous? If it's faith is fragmented (if it believes in contradictory circumstances) so is yours. If it believes good and evil can co-exist, so do you.

    It is this faith that exposes you to all manner of harm, danger, and ultimately death. Your safety begins when you start taking responsibility for your faith, and stop justifying it. Taking responsibility means ceasing and desisting justification for your fear based upon any texts, any where, any time. You actually have no basis for fear, if you are thinking/believing rightly about Christ/Good. You should fear any god in which you have invested faith, which is not Christ/Good. That god can never be more real, or justified than the faith you put into it. Again, it is the faith that is dangerous to what you become (participate in) when you pretend to be made in the image of that god.




    The old testament is about agreements you have secretly made with the god of this world. These agreements are sub-surface, buried deep in the human psyche in dark rooms with strong doors that you cannot open with surface intellect. Your relationship, as a man, with the god of this world is closer than you think...which is why your situation is dangerous on a daily basis.

    The new testament is about transparent agreements with Christ, the Truth. If you fear anything, or anybody, or any god, you are not acknowledging a deeper relationship with Christ. You're not being transparent, but rather, keeping the dark, sub-surface, non-transparent agreements with the god of this world. These are agreements you are keeping with the concept of faith, which seems to offer you something for your allegiance, but which leads into all manner of deceit and danger.

    Good is. Who is this god you speak of? Any other "god", besides Good, is a lie.

    Good is. It is not a question of lying when you are the only Being that actually exists! Who would you lie to? Who would tell you a lie? Good is not in danger of being deceived.

    On the other hand, a strange thing called "faith" (a totally foreign/alien anomaly) seems to enable you to lie to yourself, that is, if you could possibly divide yourself into separate beings that are no longer "one" (united). Faith is like a portal, a dark worm hole in one's mind, that can transform who or what you think you are. If employed by Good, it transforms Good into all manner of "things" and/or "gods" that do not actually exist. Faith, then, functions to deceive, but only one's self. The only self that can effectively be deceived is any self that is manufactured by faith itself, being the offspring of faith, so-to-speak. What knows itself as Christ cannot be deceived. Beware, then, the dangers of faith.


    People are lies. People are products of faith. Nothing faith ever produced was actually ever true. To the extent that you, as a product of faith, claim to be true, speak true, or read true, you are in grave danger. As such, as a "person", you are substituting for the Truth. A synonym for substitution is subversion. The Truth is safe. As a substitute subverting the truth, you are in grave danger, subject to change.

    You are describing the function of faith. It is faith that involves Christ/Good in the detrimental affairs and after-effects of applied faith. The very idea that Christ/Good is wrathful is a delusion of faith. The idea that Christ/Good is compelled to respond to the products of faith is itself delusional. Not just that, it is dangerous to believe things about Christ/Good that are as delusional and/or blasphemous as these ideas about involvement and reaction to your sins. Your sins are products of your faith. Sins are seriously insane notions about Christ/Good that are so delusional they are dangerous to the believer.

    Faith produces a multitude of separate selves that are in danger of the faith that produces them. Only they are in danger. Further, they are only in danger as long as they participate in/with faith, that is, keep agreements with faith (old testament).

    Whatever faith produces/makes, it can change. Indeed, faith and change are more simpatico than Biden and Harris. If the god that makes terrestrial landings wants to destroy and make more, that is not surprising at all. But this is not what Good/Christ does in it's own World, which never changes.

    There is no need for change when your World is already Perfect.


    Where ever there was lying, it was never true. If there is a world in which there could be a lie somewhere, sometime, someplace, told by somebody, then that world, that place, that time, and that body were never true.

    "I am the Truth" excludes all the times, places and circumstances in which there may have been a lie. In Truth, it is not possible to lie. This is why all the products of faith, along with the fear it produces, are all null and void.


    You will suffer and die, only if you believe (continue to invest faith) in smears like this. Yes, this is a smear upon Christ/Good which would never manufacture any being or thing that does not possess all knowledge in it's entirety (omniscience). This erroneous belief about Good is dangerous only to that which believes it. What believes these things becomes a separate "self" which identifies as perhaps a man, or perhaps a woman, or something else. It is only these "selves" that are in danger of the faith they invest in.

    You should beware that faith and eating are symbolically synonymous. You cannot "exist" (appear to be real), as a man (or woman), without eating. Likewise, you cannot "exist", without faith. Eating, any kind of food, is symbolic of faith, that is, of all the things you can possibly believe. There are all kinds of things you can believe in. These are symbolized by all the different kinds of food available for digestion. Adam and Even are famous for eating something, and dying from what they ate. Understand, if you are wise, that what they ate is faith itself. It's this faith, if digested, that kills you. But before it kills you, it it faith that makes you into a separate "self", man or woman, where you are vulnerable to change. If you are vulnerable to change, you are also vulnerable to death, which is an augmented form of change.

    It is your faith in change that kills "Adam" or "Eve". As offspring of same faith, your faith in change also kills you. Faith in change is ignorant of the knowledge of the changeless (eternal) Christ/Good. If you believe in change, you don't believe in Christ. It is this belief/faith, that functions to condemn the "you" that you believe in.

    If you look around, and see nothing but change, it means you believe in it (seeing is believing). This is a primordial faith, the "father" of time itself. If you see change, anywhere, it means you don't believe in Christ, and therefore, are "condemned already".

    As a man, or woman, you are a false accuser. This is because the faith you have invested in (made agreement with) blasphemes Christ/Good by representing Christ/Good as something they are not. For example, the very suggestion that Good/Christ is involved with, or responding to your behavior as a man or woman, this is actually a form of accusation. You are saying/claiming that Christ/Good becomes wrathful. These accusations are false. You would not be making these accusations if you were not still offering allegiance to the god of this world, which is the personification of faith. Even an atheist is making accusations merely by appearing to exist in a form that misrepresents Christ/Good, as if eyeballs, arms, teeth and feet represents that which exists and/or "lives".

    The problem with faith is it will give you whatever you desire, no matter how false it is. The first thing faith gives you is another "self", offset from Christ/Good by degrees. The more you invest in faith, the further the degree of distinction until it becomes an outright "separation" with zero common ground.

    As i've explained, the new neo-self is in danger, and encounters more danger the more it believes erroneous things about Christ/Good that are not true.

    Again, as i've explained, only Christ/Good exists. Therefore, all faith is damaging to Christ/Good to the degree it transforms Christ/Good into something it is not. It is only in this sense that Christ/Good "takes the punishment" for "you". It's not so much Christ/Good is taking your punishment, it's that you are punishing yourself whenever you punish Christ/Good with your erroneous notions about your True Self. The erroneous notions, believe in (taken seriously) produce a transformed "self" that substitutes for the True Self. It is the substitute that takes all the punishment. That is, what you do to Christ with your faith, you do it to your false self. Christ remains unharmed, safe and sound. It is the substitute, that product of faith that claims the things that are Christ's (life, existence, truth) that is "punished". It is not punished by Christ/Good. It is harmed, injured, and ultimately destroyed by it's own participation/agreement with faith, the god of this world.


    Your still not getting it. Nor did Saul/Paul (whatever). Sin is produced by faith. As a man/woman, you are a product of faith, and are therefore a "sin". Sins are seriously insane notions about Christ/Good. Sins would harm Christ/Good if they could reach Christ/Good. Sins cannot reach Christ/Good, but they can reach anyone, anything substituting for Christ/Good. If you claim to exist, or even if you appear to exist, you are in danger of the slings of sin.

    Again, it is only a technicality that Christ/Good suffers and dies for "you". "You", as a product of faith, exist only at the expense of Christ/Good. The Good must "die", so-to-speak, in order for "you", the man or woman, Jew or Greek, can "live". All sins are aimed at Christ/Good, so-to-speak. They cannot hit Christ/Good. They can only hit "you", the thing that substitutes for Christ/Good.

    This ultimately is because faith is a kind of self-deception. If self-deception were possible, it would harm the only Being that exists: Christ/Good. Faith would harm Christ/Good by transforming what is Good into something it is not. Faith produces "selves" that can be harmed. What is truly Good cannot be harmed.


    Your relationship with the god of this world ( a world produced by faith) is tighter than you think. You are not as rebellious as you think you are. Faith, on the other hand, is fundamentally antithetical ("rebellious" if you will) to that which knows. What knows is Christ/Good. As the offspring of faith, you, man or woman, Greek or Jew, are "rebellious" (antithetical) to that which knows only Christ/Good.

    There is a way back to knowledge, which is to say, there is a way back to one's True Self (which is omniscient). You must repent of faith, break your allegiances (old agreements) with it, and prepare to relinquish it.

    Where does the knowledge of this "way" come from? Well, it certainly does not come from the domain of faith (this world). Regardless, it should be self-evident to any honest lover of wisdom, that you cannot know and believe (have faith) at the same time. You either know, or you believe, and never the twain shall meet. There is an uncross-able gap...unless...unless...

    Bridging the deep chasm between faith and knowledge is possible at a designated meeting point. Bring your faith as close to knowledge as possible. If, and only if, knowledge reaches across the gap can "you" arrive on the side, in the domain of knowledge. Your faith cannot go there...ever.

    Your faith has constructed a straw man, a god that does not exist, which is vulnerable to harm/damage/change.

    It is your faith, which has transformed your True Self, as the Christ/Good, into something that can be harmed, hurt, damaged, killed. It is not Good/Christ that dies. It is the transformed "self" which dies, as long as it stands in the place of (substitutes for) Christ/Good.

    If you put your faith in this, you will die as a substitute for Christ/Good. If you are Christ/Good, the harm is done to your "self". But it is not Christ/Good which actually suffers. It is the substitute "self" that suffers and dies.

    What you currently believe about Christ/Good is like poison. It would harm Christ/Good if it could. It can't, so it kills the next nearest thing that appears to exist: "you", be it man, woman, Jew or Greek.

    Consistency (the lack of contradictions and/or cognitive dissonance) is important to the wise, who wish to overcome the dangers of contradiction in a world built upon the foundation of faith. Faith is not consistent, nor anything it produces. Texts, produced by faith, will not be consistent. Several inconsistencies have been found in your preferred collection of texts. You will not be seen as honest, or wise, while gas-lighting yourself about the consistency of your preferred collection of texts. You will be seen as a lawyer, defending a guilty client. No doubt, those texts are inspired by the god of this world. But i am not impressed by the works of faith, or the personification thereof (the god of this world).

    On the other hand, you will find consistency in everything i've explained here.

    I'm thinking about naming and numbering my responses, all the better to organize each sentence for further, deeper study and reflection.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    #42     Dec 6, 2020
  3. stu

    stu

    That's the problem.
    We heareth you.
    We hear the divisive -us versus them- Christian Bible stories like "John's" and the Bible's own admissions that God will lie and deceive.

    Know we the difference between a 'spirit of' truth, and a 'spirit of' error.
    Know we it is wrong to condone , excuse and defend the errors of lies and deceits and of anyone or anything including a God which even the Bible confesseth perpetrated those very same errors.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    #43     Dec 6, 2020
  4. Wallet

    Wallet

    But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matt 16:23 KJV
     
    #44     Dec 6, 2020
  5. "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15
     
    #45     Dec 6, 2020
  6. Good1

    Good1

    I haven't made any predictions of anything happening between now and the end of the world.

    For example, i haven't said that the "Messiah" is coming back soon, any day now. (Some people who said that are still causing people to wait, 2000 years later.)

    However, i do discuss the beginning and the ending (the alpha and omega) of "this world", which i've described as the domain of faith.

    Just as the proverbial "prodigal son" goes away and comes back home, so too does "this world" and do it's god(s), have beginnings and endings. Faith, being the father of the concepts of beginnings and endings will itself come to an end.

    So, i am predicting total victory for Christ, after the total breakdown of the "gates of hell", so-to-speak.

    This may be described as "universal salvation", being the complete redemption of Christ from the perils of faith-based concepts that run contrary to Reality.

    Christ is the entire "universe", that is, the World that actually exists upon the foundation of knowledge.

    Faith produces it's own "universe", or what it calls the entire "world". It does not recognize the World founded upon Knowledge. It is faith that produces the material worlds, those worlds manifesting out of the manipulation of light, building itself up off of a foundation of microscopic particles smaller than grains of sand.

    Faith's foundation is not stable. ln time, it will shift, and whatever was built upon it will fall.

    When faith falls, knowledge will resume its normal existence within the eternal, unchanging Christ.

    It's time you transparently declared your loyalty, to faith, or to knowledge.

    For now, "you" are fully dedicated to faith and it's manifestations.

    I predict this will change.

    When this changes, that portion of Christ that you have kept locked up in a psychological prison, will be set free.
     
    #46     Dec 6, 2020
  7. “There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.” (2 Peter 2:1)

    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/7-traits-of-false-teachers/

    "There are no “ifs, ands, or buts” in Peter’s words. It’s a clear and definite statement. There were false prophets among the people (of Israel in the Old Testament). That’s a matter of history. False prophets were a constant problem in the Old Testament, and those who falsely claimed to be prophets of God were to be stoned. The people rarely had the will to deal with them, so they multiplied, causing disaster to the spiritual life of God’s people.

    In the same way Peter says, “There will be false teachers among you.” Notice the words “among you.” Peter is writing to the church and says, “There will be false prophets among you.” So he is not talking about New Age people on television. He is talking about people in the local church, members of a local congregation.

    There is no such thing as a pure church this side of heaven. You will never find it. The wheat and the tares grow together. Warren Wiersbe writes:

    Satan is the counterfeiter. . . . He has a false gospel (Galatians 1:6-9), preached by false ministers (2 Corinthians 11:13-12), producing false Christians (2 Corinthians 11:26). . . . Satan plants his counterfeits wherever God plants true believers (Matthew 13:38).

    Authentic or Counterfeit?
    How would you recognize counterfeit Christianity?

    In 2 Peter 1 we read about genuine believers. And in 2 Peter 2 we read about counterfeit believers. If you put these chapters side by side you will see the difference between authentic and counterfeit believers.

    1. Different Source—Where does the message come from?

    Peter says, “We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1:16). And then he says the false teachers exploit you “with stories they have made up” (2:3). So the true teacher sources what he says from the Bible. The false teacher relies on his own creativity. He makes up his own message.

    2. Different Message—What is the substance of the message?

    For the true teacher, Jesus Christ is central. “We have everything we need for life and godliness in Him” (1:3). For the false teacher, Jesus is at the margins: “They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them” (2:1).

    Notice the word secretly. It’s rare for someone in church to openly deny Jesus. Movement away from the centrality of Christ is subtle. The false teacher will speak about how other people can help change your life, but if you listen carefully to what he is saying, you will see that Jesus Christ is not essential to his message.

    3. Different Position—In what position will the message leave you?

    The true Christian “escapes the corruption in the world caused by evil desires” (1:4).Listen to how Peter describes the counterfeit Christian: “They promise . . . freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity, for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him” (2:19). The true believer is escaping corruption, while the counterfeit believer is mastered by it.

    4. Different Character—What kind of people does the message produce?

    The true believer pursues goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brother kindness, and love (1:5). The counterfeit Christian is marked by arrogance and slander (2:10). They are “experts in greed” and “their eyes are full of adultery” (2:14). They also “despise authority” (2:10). This is a general characteristic of a counterfeit believer.

    5. Different Appeal—Why should you listen to the message?

    The true teacher appeals to Scripture. “We have the word of the prophets made more certain and you will do well to pay attention to it”(1:19). God has spoken, and the true teacher appeals to his Word. The false teacher makes a rather different appeal: “By appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error” (2:18). So the true teacher asks, “What has God said in his Word?” The false teacher asks, “What do people want to hear? What will appeal to their flesh?”

    6. Different Fruit—What result does the message have in people’s lives?

    The true believer is effective and productive in his or her knowledge of Jesus Christ (1:8). The counterfeit is “like a spring without water” (2:17). This is an extraordinary picture! They promise much but produce little.

    7. Different End—Where does the message ultimately lead you?

    Here we find the most disturbing contrast of all. The true believer will receive “a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1:11). The false believer will experience “swift destruction” (2:1). “Their condemnation has long been hanging over them and their destruction has not been sleeping” (2:3).

    Jesus tells us that there will be many who have been involved in ministry in his name, to whom he will say, “Depart from me; I never knew you” (Matthew 7:21). Who are these people? Surely Peter is describing them in this passage.

    Don’t Be Naïve
    We must not be ignorant: “There will be false teachers among you” (2:1). So how do we apply this warning?

    First, Peter’s plain statement reminds us that the church needs to be protected. Among the many wonderful people who come to through the doors of the church each year, some would do more harm than good.

    They may seem the nicest of people, but they do not believe in the authority of the Bible or the exclusivity of salvation in Christ. We welcome such people, because they need Christ as much as we do, but we must not allow them to have influence in the church.

    Second, skeptics will always be able to point to hypocrisy and inconsistency in the church. They’ve always done it, and they always will. One of the strangest reasons for not following Christ goes like this: “I’ve seen people in the church who are hypocrites.” So you will not follow Christ because some people who claim to do so are hypocrites?

    The existence of the counterfeit is never a good reason for rejecting the genuine. Peter essentially tells us, “Of course there are counterfeit Christians. Of course there are teachers who do the church more harm than good. What else would you expect in this fallen world? Grow up! Don’t be naïve! Don’t miss what’s real simply because you have seen the counterfeit.”

    Point to 2 Peter 2:1 the next time you meet someone hiding behind this excuse."
     
    #47     Dec 6, 2020
  8. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/7-traits-of-false-teachers/

    Most important exerpt from the article above:

    In 2 Peter 1 we read about genuine believers. And in 2 Peter 2 we read about counterfeit believers. If you put these chapters side by side you will see the difference between authentic and counterfeit believers.

    1. Different Source—Where does the message come from?

    Peter says, “We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1:16). And then he says the false teachers exploit you “with stories they have made up” (2:3). So the true teacher sources what he says from the Bible. The false teacher relies on his own creativity. He makes up his own message.
     
    #48     Dec 6, 2020
  9. Good1

    Good1

    These kinds of warnings are cheap and easy for the false teachers themselves. This psy-op method is common for Islam as well. Christianity is probably seen as started and maintained by false teachers to Jews themselves.

    Unfortunately, minds that have fallen under the spell of false teachings about Christ, are just that, under a spell. Delusions have a way of bolstering confidence about one's own interpretations.

    Apparently Jesus was considered some kind of false prophet, to those who knew the "old testament" the best.

    Sounds like Peter was becoming more and more paranoid as time went on. Wasn't he involved in killing two congregants who did not measure up to some strict rules about community property? Apparently he was experimenting with communism, with him at the top of the equality.

    Communism, on earth, is like a counterfeit Kingdom of Good, where there already exists perfect equality and sharing of all assets and qualities.

    Actually faith, in it's function, produces counterfeit reality. I don't think it helps to personify faith, and give it a name. It's important to realize, however, that both "god" and "satan" perform the functions of faith within the domain of faith. They are not really different things, having in common faith for their apparent existence. Giving them names only strengthens the spell they have over your mind. Names affirm their existence, in your mind.

    Christianity is not well enough defined to be able to say that any one member is "false". There is no common teaching that binds them together except that all Christians deny they are Christ. This is kind of an unwritten rule they all agree with.

    On the other hand if you accept Christ as your Self, you forfeit membership in the flock of the wolves in sheep's clothing.

    Well, faith is counterfeit knowledge. Christ is knowledge. So everything that proceeds from faith is counterfeit Christ.

    Counterfeit Christ can be recognized by the multitude of seemingly separate beings, entities, or persons. Counterfeit Christ can been seen as anything that is not Spirit, having it's foundation upon separated things like atoms, quarks, and various dark "matter". So, counterfeit Christ is the material world, so-to-speak.

    People, themselves, are counterfeit Christs. Doesn't matter what faith, so long as they function under faith.

    There are 50 shades of faith. It is delusional to suggest one brand of faith is better than another when compared to the knowledge of Christ. We can only hope that one shade of faith is less violent than another, by degrees.

    Wait, was this the same Peter who, twenty years after Jesus had disappeared, was still behaving hypocritically in regards relationships between Jews and Greeks, specifically around dinner time?

    Paul called him out as being quite hypocritical, basically the same thing as being a false teacher.

    Nor would it matter much what stories Peter told. You are going to interpret them as you please. For example, Peter said that Jesus preached to those in hell. Occam's Razor would suggest that "this world" is "hell", since this is the only place Jesus was actually known to have preached.

    I think it is disgusting to use the name of Jesus to promote interpretations of his teachings that run contradictory to his meaning. Several of Jesus students were pretty terrible at understanding anything he said. This is revealed near the end of John, where, after three years following Jesus, they had to admit they still did not get it. Jesus seems to agree, chiding them on their slow learning. If they were that bad when Jesus was there, i would not expect them to catch up after he disappeared.

    Christians deny they are Christ all the time. Moving away from this central theme, they promote subtle ideas like, "like Christ". Actually, there is Christ, and there are counterfeits that are "like" the Reality. It's very subtle so you have to beware of it. Watch out!
     
    #49     Dec 6, 2020
  10. #50     Dec 6, 2020
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