Discussion (or maybe not) between Good1 and studentofthemarkets

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by studentofthemarkets, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. I decided to leave off of writing on my threads in the religious section, but since Good1 seems to want to either engage me in a dialogue with him, against my wishes, or he just wants to post his views on my threads, I have decided try to defend my threads and give an attempt to responding to him in this thread and hope he stays off of my others.

    Not sure how this is going to go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  2. First of all, Good1, we are at complete opposite viewpoints in our beliefs. I believe the Bible is trustworthy, based on God's declaration that "Thus saith the Lord" as written in the Scriptures many times over means it was a direct declaration from God that was recorded.

    Here is a quick pull-up of a list of some of these verses:

    [​IMG] Exo 4:22

    And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
    Exo 5:1

    And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.
    Exo 7:17

    Thus saith the LORD, In this thou shalt know that I am the LORD: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine hand upon the waters which are in the river, and they shall be turned to blood.
    Exo 8:1

    And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
    Exo 8:20

    And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh; lo, he cometh forth to the water; and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
    Exo 9:1

    Then the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
    Exo 9:13

    And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
    Exo 10:3

    And Moses and Aaron came in unto Pharaoh, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, How long wilt thou refuse to humble thyself before me? let my people go, that they may serve me.
    Exo 11:4

    And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt:
    Exo 32:27

    And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
    Jos 7:13

    Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow: for thus saith the LORD God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you.
    Jos 24:2

    And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
    Jdg 6:8

    That the LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel, which said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought you up from Egypt, and brought you forth out of the house of bondage;
    1Sa 2:27

    And there came a man of God unto Eli, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Did I plainly appear unto the house of thy father, when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house?
    1Sa 10:18

    And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you:
    1Sa 15:2

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
    2Sa 7:5

    Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in?
    2Sa 7:8

    Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
    2Sa 12:7

    And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
    2Sa 12:11

    Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
    2Sa 24:12

    Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
    1Ki 11:31

    And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
    1Ki 12:24

    Thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not go up, nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel: return every man to his house; for this thing is from me. They hearkened therefore to the word of the LORD, and returned to depart, according to the word of the LORD.
    1Ki 13:2

    And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.
    1Ki 13:21

    And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,
    1Ki 14:7

    Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel,
    1Ki 17:14

    For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.
    1Ki 20:13

    And, behold, there came a prophet unto Ahab king of Israel, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.
    1Ki 20:14

    And Ahab said, By whom? And he said, Thus saith the LORD, Even by the young men of the princes of the provinces. Then he said, Who shall order the battle? And he answered, Thou.
    1Ki 20:28

    And there came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the LORD, Because the Syrians have said, The LORD is God of the hills, but he is not God of the valleys, therefore will I deliver all this great multitude into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
    1Ki 20:42

    And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of thy hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people.
    1Ki 21:19

    And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine.
    1Ki 22:11

    And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.
    2Ki 1:4

    Now therefore thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die. And Elijah departed.
    2Ki 1:6

    And they said unto him, There came a man up to meet us, and said unto us, Go, turn again unto the king that sent you, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that thou sendest to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? therefore thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.
    2Ki 1:16

    And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down off that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.
    2Ki 2:21

    And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the LORD, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren land.
    2Ki 3:16

    And he said, Thus saith the LORD, Make this valley full of ditches.
    2Ki 3:17

    For thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts.
    2Ki 4:43

    And his servitor said, What, should I set this before an hundred men? He said again, Give the people, that they may eat: for thus saith the LORD, They shall eat, and shall leave thereof.
    2Ki 7:1

    Then Elisha said, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the LORD, To morrow about this time shall a measure of fine flour be sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, in the gate of Samaria.
    2Ki 9:3

    Then take the box of oil, and pour it on his head, and say, Thus saith the LORD, I have anointed thee king over Israel. Then open the door, and flee, and tarry not.
    2Ki 9:6

    And he arose, and went into the house; and he poured the oil on his head, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I have anointed thee king over the people of the LORD, even over Israel.
    2Ki 9:12

    And they said, It is false; tell us now. And he said, Thus and thus spake he to me, saying, Thus saith the LORD, I have anointed thee king over Israel.
    2Ki 19:6

    And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say to your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
    2Ki 19:20

    Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, That which thou hast prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria I have heard.
    2Ki 19:32

    Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it.
    2Ki 20:1

    In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.
    2Ki 20:5

    Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD.
    2Ki 21:12

    Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria="Thus+saith+the+Lord"&t=KJV

    And that was listing only what came up from the beginning of the Bible through 2 Kings 21:12.
     
  3. Responding in another post, because some people won't scroll down to the bottom of the last post.

    So, the point is that God Himself spoke directly to people and there are scriptures that state that His Spirit also directed people to write the Bible.

    So, my first response to you, is that no matter how much someone may dislike and disagree with what is in the Bible, God Himself wrote it, and we do not get to decide Who God is or how He reveals Himself to us.

    _____________

    Also, just as a suggestion, could we tackle one small topic at a time? You have a lot of things you put in each of the posts you write and it would take me a lot of time to respond to each one, so please, could we try to keep posts simple and easy to respond to? Thanks
     
  4. Good1

    Good1

    That would be me. You may as well post a link to an online bible. Just say, 'it's in the bible', and we can choose to believe you or not, believe it or not, if indeed there is anything that is believable, versus what are parables (parables are neither to be believed nor disbelieved, but rather understood).

    Your policy seems opposite mine. You always quote the bible, i never do. I believe it's better to understand it, and put it into your own words, rather than, you know, plagiarize. This probably goes back to what we were taught in school to put book reports into our own words, having first digested the material. In this way, we can show better that we understand the material.

    Sentences picked out of the collection can doubtfully speak for the entire collection, which was different for most early theological enthusiasts until standardized by a popular (the most?) cohesive group of enthusiasts over some centuries.

    "Do not add or subtract from this book", for example, might just reference the one book just inked. Fine. But it does say something about how prevalent the practice of adding and subtracting was in the theo-sphere of books. Quite possibly, the books you believe in have already been added and subtracted from, but you would not ever know that if you are convinced, and have faith, that they are pure as the driven snow.

    I discuss the concept of adding and subtracting in my "Faith is a sin..." thread. In brief, one should never add to what is Good, or you may end up with a subtracted version called God (missing an essential element). Books are additions to Good, which must eventually be subtracted, if one wishes for Good to be saved.

    I would admit that the B/bible (not sure if it deserves a capital letter like Good) is a product of the G/god (not sure if it deserves a capital like Good) of this world. Being the G/god of this world, it could very well move the hands of it's manifestations (any man). I might also argue that the moving of any man's hand could qualify as the moving of G/god, if indeed the mind of G/god is fragmented into many compartmentalized spaces. This would be true if indeed man is made in the image of his M/maker. This would mean the M/maker's mind is split, each fragment having it's own opinion.

    It's more than suspicious that if G/god could/would speak through men over a thousand, or two thousand year period, the G/god would cease and desist helping a hungry world. One would think the powers of the G/god are still viable even today, not being limited by old interpretations. This ploy, of limiting the speaking/writing to the long past, reminds me of the ploy of Mohammad, or his biographers, who insisted he would be the last prophet to speak for the G/god. It's a little too much gas light.

    So, ok, give your G/god credit for every jot and tittle. At the same time, i will completely dissociate Good from having any influence in it's construction, collection, or valuation. The Good that i speak of has nothing whatsoever to do with the said collection, and only by coincidence does one of Good's messengers, perhaps the greatest messenger so far, make a cameo appearance to say and do a few things, only to have them be misinterpreted by the G/god who moves the pens of men. Thus, the G/god, and the Good, are completely different beings. One exists, and the other doesn't, except through faith (see my thread 'Faith is a sin').

    Whether it was written directly by the hand of said G/god, or through the hands and pens of otherwise mindless men, it's ok with me. Meanwhile, you do indeed decide who or what the G/god is, and/or how it reveals itself (assuming it does not have a gender). I have decided that said G/god is not Good, of whose attributes i speak of often in my threads. I don't really have much choice in whether such Good exists or not, but i, like you, have been judging what is Good, and what is not Good for a very long time. The difference is i no longer have a desire to misrepresent what is Good with erroneous notions (judgments) about Good (see my thread 'Faith is a sin...').


    I have a thread, "Faith is a sin...". It's a fairly broad topic, given the scope of faith, and the damage it does to Good. If you have something to say specific to faith, that would be a good place to put it.

    I would encourage you to limit biblical quotations, only including them as you interpret each one. I can then address how close, or how far away was the interpretation. This is assuming something valid was quoted to begin with. Interpretations of erroneous things said/implied about Good will likely not be more valuable, or accurate, than the erroneous thing said about Good.

    Could take the famous lawyer Abraham Lincholn approach, who, im told, reduced his in court responses/rebuttals to the most salient points, leaving the others beyond the attention span of the jury.

    Or simply address one small point as time permits, over a span of responses. The theme, really, is always the same. Is it Good, or, is it of G/god. Is it based on knowledge, or based on faith.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  5. To refuse to quote the Bible would ridiculous for me to do because THE BIBLE IS THE SOURCE OF TRUTH God has given us so that we can know Him.

    Jesus, when praying to His Father, said, "Your Word is Truth." John 17:17

    Also, the psalmist said:

    "For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does." Psalm 33:4


    Are There Other Written Sources of Religious Truth Apart from the Bible?
    No. While there are many other religious writings that claim to reveal “ultimate truth,” the Bible clearly says that it is the sole written source of our knowledge about the one true, living God. It is the only written revelation that He has given humanity. The following points need to be considered:​

    1. The Bible Commands Not to Add or Subtract from God’s Revealed Word
      There are warnings contained in Scripture not to add or subtract from what God has revealed. Moses wrote:

      You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2 NKJV)
      In the Book of Proverbs, we read something similar. It says:

      Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6 NIV)
      The Book of Revelation closes by giving this warning:

      I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone of you adds anything to them, God will add to you the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone of you takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from you your share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19 TNIV)
      God’s Words are important to Him; no human being should add or subtract from them. Since He is the only God that exists, His words alone are the final standard of right and wrong.

    2. All Other Ways to God Are False
      The Bible warns its readers of false prophets and false teachings. John wrote to the readers of his day about such. He said:

      Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1 NASB)
      Jesus warned of those who offer other ways to approach God apart from Him. We read the following in the gospel of John:

      Those who heard Jesus use this illustration didn’t understand what he meant, so he explained it to them. “I assure you, I am the gate for the sheep,” he said. “All others who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them. Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in through me will be saved. Wherever they go, they will find green pastures. The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give life in all its fullness.” (John 10:6-10 NLT)
      The Apostle Paul warned about false teachers who claimed to speak for Christ. He wrote the following to the church at Galatia:

      I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed. (Galatians 1:6-9 NRSV)
      Only the gospel, or the good news, that has been revealed in the New Testament is the true gospel—all other so-called gospels are false.

      The Bible says that there are also false apostles who preach a different Jesus. These types of people were around in Paul’s day. He warned the Corinthians about them. He wrote:

      I hope you will be patient with me as I keep on talking like a fool. Please bear with me. I am jealous for you with the jealousy of God himself. For I promised you as a pure bride to one husband, Christ. But I fear that somehow you will be led away from your pure and simple devotion to Christ, just as Eve was deceived by the serpent. You seem to believe whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach about a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed... These people are counterfeit apostles, dishonest workers disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:1-4, 13-14 NLT)
      The Corinthians seemed to believe the message brought by these false teachers. Paul rebuked them for this. That is why it is essential that we know and understand the content of the genuine message that the Lord has given to humanity.

    3. The Faith Has Been Delivered Once and for All to Humanity
      There is something more. The Bible says that the faith has been once and for all delivered to believers. Jude wrote about this. He said:

      Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. (Jude 3 NASB)
      The faith has been delivered in the Scriptures and nowhere else. It is the only source of authority to which one can go to discover God’s truth.
    Conclusion: the Bible Alone Is the Only Infallible Source of Truth about God
    Consequently, the Bible is the only written revelation that God has given the human race. There is only one God who exists, and He has chosen to reveal Himself through one written source; the Scriptures. No other source of divine truth should be consulted because no other source is divine. The Bible alone is the one guide for all humanity.​

    Summary - Question 19
    Are There Other Written Sources of Religious Truth Apart from the Bible?​

    It is clear that the Bible does not present itself as one of several options for religious truth. It claims to be God’s authoritative Word. The Bible consistently maintains that any work, religious or otherwise, which teaches anything, to the contrary is, at that point, wrong. As far as the Bible is concerned, it is all or nothing. If we accept it, we must accept it as ultimately authoritative. It must be the standard by which we judge all other writings that attempt to convey spiritual truth.

     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  6. Good1

    Good1

    I merely suggest using it as a crutch, or as a talisman.

    You cannot rely upon current knowledge, inspired by Good, for an assessment of what is true? When did Good die, and make dusty pages a substitute for his (presuming Good has a gender, which Good doesn't) voice?

    Also, wouldn't you need current, up to date inspiration just to be able to assess whether old dusty pages contain anything valuable in their representation of said G/god?

    What, right now (or five years ago when you decided the whole collection was entirely true) tells you it is true? How is it that the voice of G/god has been locked away in the time capsule of your choice?

    That is in the B/bible. Therefore, we can't be sure whether Jesus said that or not. I would estimate only about 5% of what Jesus said appears in the most popular collection. Whether authentic or not, you are indeed interpreting the contents. You must be assuming Jesus is referencing the book of Genesis, or perhaps the book of Revelations. On the other hand, he may well have just been referencing his Self (the Truth), or the message he was conveying (through words).

    You have a lot of faith in an anonymous psalmist. If only you regarded Jesus' true Self as the Truth, and the message he revealed as inspired of Good. If only you heeded what he said about doing what he does, even more, if only we understood, and followed his example.

    As for "the Lord", i've already made the distinction between the G/god of this world, and Good. The G/god of this world is man's maker, and inspires man to say and do many things. Good does not make man, or man's world, and is quite limited coming to involvement with the G/god of this world's machinations (man). All of Good's interactions are aimed at speaking to and/or inspiring the proverbial Prodigal Son to return home. As such, Jesus does not really speak to men (or women), but rather speaks to that which has ears to hear: Christ, or rather, the Christ that is hidden by the manifestation of man. After all, it is Christ that is being saved, not man.
     
  7. I have faith in God's Word, first of all because God Himself directed the Bible.

    Second, because of the convicting work of God's Spirit in my life, revealing to my heart, that I truly am a sinner who has fallen short of the glory of God. I would not, out of my own desires, want to acknowledge that within me there is a desire to do what is evil. Yet, because of God's Spirit working in me, I can acknowledge that a desire to do evil, and those things which are contrary to God's goodness and His good ways, does exist within me. The fear of seeing my sin, in light of a Holy God who will judge all sin, has been taken away, because I believe God's Word that says, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." So, with faith in Jesus as my Substitute, I have been reconciled to God.

    Third, because many Scriptures, written by many authors, written hundreds of years before Jesus came, alluded to or directly foretold that One would come to deliver from sin, and eventually, to reign as rightful King of this earth.

    "Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him." Isaiah 53:6

    THERE'S ENOUGH PROOF RIGHT IN THAT ONE VERSE THAT ONE WAS TO COME AS A SIN BEARER THAT EVERYONE SHOULD COME TO REALIZE THAT GOD FORETOLD THIS SO THAT WE COULD KNOW FOR SURE THAT WHEN JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS, IT WAS PROPHESIED BEFORE, AND IT WAS TRULY, CERTAINLY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT, GOD'S PLAN. NOT PEOPLE'S PLAN.

    “Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the people of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and prayer, and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son." Zechariah 12:10 BSB Note that God is speaking yet says, "Me whom they pierced." Note also, that this a a prophecy that has NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED. “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the people of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity." Skipping a few verses, the prophecy is still continuing but makes the connection that this mourning for the One they have pierced, and this spirit of prayer results in forgiveness of sins.

    So, there. Two passages written hundreds of years before Jesus came, that prophesied of His substitutionary work. And three strong reasons for why I personally believe the Bible and in Jesus as my God and Savior from my sin.
     
  8. Good1

    Good1

    I'm not disputing that. I would also not dispute that the God you speak of has also directed the Koran, as well the Book of Mormon, just as they say (those who choose to believe in those sources). Could also include Jehovah's witness version. To the extent that these sources may disagree with each other, disagreement is a feature, not a bug, in how a G/god of faith operates. This one G/god could very well be the author of confusion.

    My question goes to why you have chosen this particular collection, rather than those other collections/sources available? You are smarter than 1.8 billion Muslims? Have more faith than 16 million Mormons? Wiser than 144k Jehovahs witnesses?

    There had to be a moment you switched from, No, this is not true, to i don't know if this is true, to >> This is totally true.

    You should be able to trace this down to a moment. Perhaps we can call this the Billy Graham moment.

    "That evening, Billy made his way down a mountain trail near the camp and laid his Bible on a tree stump. He cried out to God in prayer: “God I don’t understand everything about your Word, or have answers to all the questions that Chuck is raising, but I put my trust in Your Word, by faith.” Tears stung his cheeks, and he sensed the presence of God overwhelm him in a way he hadn’t felt for many months. The next morning, Billy fulfilled his obligation to preach at Forest Home. He preached with a new authority, and hundreds of people made decisions for Jesus Christ at the service." ~ from Billy Graham's autobiography excerpts found here.

    As you can see, Billy made a choice, otherwise known as a judgment, and/or a decision.

    How, based upon Billy's choice, did the B/bible go from whatever it actually is, to whatever Billy thought about it?

    Further, upon who, or what authority did Billy make this choice?

    If the authority to know what is true came directly from G/god, then what use does Billy have for an old collection of tales with interpretations?

    Why wouldn't Billy just be able to open his mouth and speak as his tongue was moved by the great authority?

    Why wouldn't Billy be able to speak, and all his words be turned into yet more "scripture" that we could then call "the Word of God"?

    As it turns out, there was no such authority. There was a decision, a judgment, a choice, and/or a commitment.

    Rather, the authority seems to have been Billy, and/or Billy's decision to select a particular faith. Meanwhile, 1.8 billion Muslims have used their own authority to select another flavor of faith. Why is Billy Graham right, or righteous, and 1.8 billion Muslims wrong, or wrongous?

    If by your own authority to select a principle to have faith in, how do you know the B/bible is something called the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth, to the exclusion of all other words written on the subject of Truth?

    What i'm suggesting is that all you have done is passed judgement upon Good, and have obtained something called G/god. I'm suggesting you are using the B/bible to help you justify the judgement you are passing upon that which is Good.

    Further, I'm suggesting that it is not justified, except by your own selection of faith.

    Ok, you wish to talk about prophecy that seems to be fulfilled. I'm suggesting that faith has justification functions that enable you to see things that are simply not there.

    It's called confirmation bias. Confirmation bias can make square pegs fit into round holes. Justification. Forced reasoning. Pseudo logic. And this is because faith is fundamentally deceptive in it's functioning. It shows us whatever we want to see. It finds what it calls "evidence", or even "proof".

    It's better to understand motive. What motivates anyone to select any particular faith? What motivates anyone to make judgments about what is Good, and call the collection of choices G/god?

    I'm suggesting that the motive for 1.8 million Muslims, 16 million Mormons, 8 million Jehovah's witnesses, and an untold number of self-described Christians is the same motive.

    These faiths, all slightly different, are all the same in that they save you. Meaning, they help you hold onto your humanity, those qualities and circumstances that differentiate you from that which is Good.

    I'm suggesting that this motive goes before the faith you choose. I'm suggesting you could choose from several various faith packages, and arrive at the same destination because of the same motive.

    Once more, can you pinpoint the moment you decided to maintain a package of principles that holds a particular collection of books upon a hallowed pedestal?

    What was going through your mind at that moment?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
    studentofthemarkets likes this.
  9. I liked your message because you asked what I would consider to be great questions for discussion.

    You wrote a lot and I want to put some thought into answering you, so I'm not sure when I'll get back to you, but hopefully by sometime tomorrow.
     
  10. Good1 asked these questions throughout his post:
    My question goes to why you have chosen this particular collection, rather than those other collections/sources available? You are smarter than 1.8 billion Muslims? Have more faith than 16 million Mormons? Wiser than 144k Jehovahs witnesses?

    There had to be a moment you switched from, No, this is not true, to i don't know if this is true, to >> This is totally true.

    You should be able to trace this down to a moment.

    Once more, can you pinpoint the moment you decided to maintain a package of principles that holds a particular collection of books upon a hallowed pedestal?

    What was going through your mind at that moment?


    My answer to your questions is: Because of God Himself. It was not an embracing of a certain viewpoint based on weighing which seemed most logical to me. But God himself used His word to reveal His person, and His goodness and His love to me, as well as the judgment I deserve because of my sin.

    Specifically, at the moment I turned to Him, I knew that God is the Creator and He is both righteous and good. I understood that He will judge everyone in righteousness, and saw my wretchedness in light of His goodness. The terror of judgment from the Lord was part of my persuasion to flee to the offer of forgiveness and reconciliation to God through the substitution Jesus provided in my place. Now that I have entered into a reconciled relationship with God there is no longer any fear, but peace and continually growing in understanding His love for me....as well as His love and desire for all to be redeemed through the blood of Jesus.



    Specifically, at that time, I repeated back to God the words in John 14 when Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” I acknowledged that Jesus, because He is God, and shed His blood for my sins on the cross, and rose from the dead, was the only way that I could be reconciled to God. I simply asked, and sought for Him to become my savior, and He did.


    Regarding other beliefs, I simply say that there is no other god. God Himself has declared that, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.” Exodus 20:24


    One way to know that the prophets that wrote the Bible were sent by God was by fulfilled prophecy. That is why I emphasize that Jesus was prophesied about many times and hundreds of years before He fulfilled the Scriptures about His dying for our sins. .

    “22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.” Deuteronomy 18:22


    Those you mentioned, the mormons, the Koran, the Jehovah’s witnessess do not completely hold to the authority of the Scriptures. To varying degrees they have added and/or detracted from the Scriptures, which is condemned by the Scriptures.

     
    #10     Nov 17, 2020