Dinosaur question

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by earlyred, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. earlyred


    I have been successfully intraday trading for years, particularly the Russell on short term timeframes. What once was profitable has changed due to High frequency traders. I can't compete with robots.
    I feel like Fred Flintstone in the age of George Jetson.

    I see others on this forum having the same issues that I am. My question is this. I am a pattern trader who reads a chart extremely well. I need markets that are well behaved, that as yet are not being slammed /manipulated by the bots of the High Frequency traders.

    Does anyone having any suggestions (excluding forex... I like daylight hours) where the market structure is good so a dinosaur chartist can still trade profitably and earn a living?

    I am open to any and all suggestions on markets....thx in advance
  2. You can't be naive enough to really believe that you'd be able to trade the same way (especially short term time frames) forever and not have to adapt? Come on man... The market will always change. Just be happy it stayed the same for long enough for you to make out well for the time you did.

    Change up your style. If what you are doing now consistenly loses money, then why not do the opposite? Put your profit target where your stop used to be and take the opposite side of your old position.

    There's a reason dinosaurs became extinct.... the market evolved.
  3. earlyred


    I appreciate your response but you did not answer the question. The trading skills and methodology I am talking aboutare based on market principles. Yes, markets do change and evolve, but market principles do not change. The way one technically defines a trend is still the same. What the Algos and Bots have done is to significantly increase the element of random price movement, PACE, and SPEED into the equation, thereby reducing the efficacy of classical principle based methods. The question is, in your opinion, can you suggest trading vehicles or markets where my dinosaur skill set can still be applicable and viable.
  4. Could it be that you're just using HFT as an excuse?

    There are plenty of people on this board still making money with traditional charting...myself included.

    Caveat: I only trade stocks.

    Maybe stay away from highly leveraged markets like futures and forex :confused:
  5. earlyred


    Thx for the input. You are correct regarding HFT in stocks, but I prefer leveraged markets. BTW I am not using HFT as an excuse (remember market principles statement).

    Do you have any suggestions rather than stocks,
  6. Your question is too broad. What is a "good" market structure? Maybe you can do some analysis on a few 100 symbols/contracts like some of us did and find out. Look at serial correlation, descrete fourier transforms, volatility correlations, etc. Then figure out what markets are good based on the strategies you use. You should know a little bit about those. In my view, all markets are good markets and there will be no difference in opportunities as a whole, but there will be a difference in opportunities based on what kind of trading you do.
  7. I think there is a logical flaw in your thinking. There is no such thing as random price movement. Unlike the pikers that regularly shoot their mouths off here, those market participants large enough to affect price do not make execution decisions randomly. Just because you do not understand it does not mean that it is random.

    The market principles of supply and demand remain as true as they have ever done. How can they not? A market is simply the meeting of participants with supply and participants with demand to transact with each other.
  8. bln


    You say you trade on chart patterns. Can you not move up to a larger time frame where the noise from the HFT does not show up. The same patterns that used to show up on 1 min resolution should also be seen on the swing level (5-min -> 60 min) right?
  9. well, they didn't all become extinct. There is very good scientific evidence that some dinosaurs evolved into ostriches and still live today.
  10. Yes, and furthermore, they can time travel. (if you read source field investigations, you should know that ;-) )

    #10     Feb 5, 2012