Did Rumsfeld & Co. Put Us In A Mess? And Why Are We Really There?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by dgabriel, Mar 29, 2003.

  1. Things ain't going the way the Pentagon/White House public relations departments predicted.

    Its nasty and real. Death, destruction, and brutality. And brought to us live in our living rooms. And no flowers and kisses for the "liberators". Not yet at least.

    Now the other whack city Arabs are getting into the fray. Hizbollah fighters and reportedly Al- Queda fighters are now in Iraq.

    Did Rummy and the generals really think this was going to be a cakewalk? Or did they just sell us a Cakewalk War?

    And, why are we there? Is it really about WMD? Did the president make a plausible case?

    Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz advocated invasion and regime change to Clinton in 1997, so 9/11 is after the fact in the planning of this war.
     
  2. Hindsight. Now is not the time for second guessing. Put away the Headline News, instant gratification, fickle as the wind mentality.

    The issue isn't what we didn't do, but what we need to do we do now, to win.

    After the war, then we can analyze and learn, but not now.

    If America hasn't the stomach for this war, we will never have the stomach to defeat terrorism.

    Whether it is difficult or hard should not be a reason to do what is right, should it? Anyone who "bought" the concept of a cakewalk war didn't truly understand what the war is really about.

    Now more than ever, support for the troops and the war effort is needed.

    Patience, patience, patience.
     
  3. Yep, we have to win it seems. Isn' t that a tough fix to be in?

    But the question remains, why are we there? And will we be able to remain true to the original goals, whatever they may have been? Did you buy Bush's dumbed down explanation on TV a few weeks ago?

    What were/are the ultimate goals of Bush, Rumsfeld, and the policy makers?
     
  4. rs7

    rs7

    Seems like this campaign (which I favor) was not really well thought out. How is it that we can be fighting an enemy we believe to be capable of using WMD,s.....that is our primary reason for being there......yet be surprised by them fighting "dirty"?

    9/11, now this, and we still have no idea where UBL is. Our intelligence seems not to be too intelligent.
     
  5. I look at it a bit differently.

    Imagine a member of your family, a sister, or a daughter did something stupid. They got in trouble. Would you spend your time criticizing them, telling they were stupid, or would you help them out of the jam they are in?

    I wasn't in favor of this war, I thought there were better methods to solve the problem.

    However, once we committed, I felt I had to lend my full support, for the good of the country.

    In my opinion, we need to do a lot of growing up as a country. We appear soft and weak to me. We are losing the respect of other countries, not because of the war, but because of the way were are handling it!

    We acted like children following 911, crying and moaning, waving the flag.

    Where was the simple, quiet resolve. I did nothing externally or overtly patriotic following 911. I thought it was nonsense.

    I much prefer a stiff upper lip, going about our business. The British way, or at least the British way under Churchill is the greatest example of our 20th century history of how to handle adversity under pressure.

    Where is the inner commitment to win no matter what.

    I just wish GW would shut the hell up, and let the military do their job. Turn off all the fucking cameras, and let them do their job.

    Let's show some solidarity, some backbone. Let's not live in fear of having to fight a war over there, because if we are afraid of fighting over there and how difficult it is, imagine what it would be like if we actually had to fight a war over here.

    Think it can't happen? If we show the world we can't win, what message does that show? If we show these countries that we are weak, and afraid to die for what we say we believe in, what are we?

    Winning isn't a choice in this case. There is no choice. We must win at any and all costs. This war, is representative of our standing in the world community. Everyone is watching how we react both at home, and abroad. I don't give a damn if the rest of the world loves us. They are going to hate us no matter what. Win or lose, they will hate us. That is the nature of being top dog. So why not just win? Why is it that the rest of the world isn't crying out at the atrocities that Saddam is committing right now with his use of civilians as human shields? Why don't they care that civilians are made to fight, under threat of murder if they don't?

    The rest of the world doesn't really care about Iraqi civilians, or they would have been protesting the abusive treatment all these years by Saddam's regime. France, as long as they had a trading partner with Saddam, and nice oil contracts, didn't care about how Saddam governed his people. It is all smoke and mirrors.

    We are in it now, up to our necks, that is all that matters, and our soldiers need our moral support. They are afraid, and if they see that we are afraid here at home, how are they supposed to feel? Show them support, show them confidence, show them that we have full faith in them and their cause. It is in our best interest collectively if we do.

    The demonstrators, who say they love this country, don't understand how much damage they are doing at this time. There is strength in unity, and weakness in dissension. Demonstrate after the war, change policy then, but not during a time of war in which we cannot afford to retreat.

    Just imagine how great leaders of the past would have handled the present situation, no matter how they were thrown into it. Imagine if Truman had not been strong, what the results might have been in Japan.

    I was at the gym tonight, and a young kid was watching the war. He said that we got our butts kicked by the commies in Vietnam, and the Arabs were kicking our butts now. This wasn't an Arab American, but just a typical American kid. What message are we sending our children, in whose hands depends the freedom of this nation down the road? Are we telling them that we can't win a fight? That we don't know what we are doing?

    This war is so much more than just the USA versus Iraq.

    It is so much more, so much more.
     
  6. We are losing the respect of other countries, not because of how we're handling the war, but because of our total disregard for world opinion, international law, and international treaties.

    After 9/11, the world didn't hate us. The world was united together in such a strong fashion, it may have been the most solidarity the world has ever seen!!

    Now its the Neocon's in Washington plowing through Iraq against the wishes of the UN, and most of the rest of the world. Why are there such large demonstrations against the war, even before the war started!! This is telling you something. The US makes up about 5% of worlds population, yet we're telling the other 95% how we think the world should run, yet they get no say in the matter!

    Whether it is missle defense, the international criminal court, kyoto, disregarding geneva convention rules about enemy combatants in Cuba, the list goes on. Other people have to obey the rules, if Iraq defies the UN, thats bad, if our buddy Israel defies the UN for 30+ years, we won't give it a second thought.
     
  7. Optional you're on a roll. Keep this up and I'm going to have to start respecting you again. :cool:
     

  8. Oh, that precious "standing in the world community". Ever so important isn't it ...

    The sublime arrogance of Americans is simply insufferable.

    Get your heads out the sand people! Do you really think that other countries think the same way you chest thumpers do?

    Do you really think Danes are beside themselves worrying about world opinion on Denmark? Or the Kenyans, or the Burmese, or the Chileans?
    This kind of thinking is pure American "we're so good" drivel!

    If there have EVER been a people that could use a healthy dose of humility it's the Americans!

    By the twisted logic of your post, Optional, resource rich countries without $300bn defence budgets, and military adventures every 2 years, like Australia, Argentina and South Africa, for example, would have been invaded and plundered thirty times in the past decade alone. Lol. The world isn't anxiously awaiting America to show "signs of weakness" so they can attack her you dolt! That's a complete product of your imagination (or indoctrination into "we are the greatest" syndrome).

    Optional doesn't care if the world loves or hates America, as long as they fear her.

     
  9. When you say "We are losing the respect of other countries" are you saying that as an American citizen?
     
  10. Yes, that is correct.
     
    #10     Mar 29, 2003