Did Robert Hoffman really lose 312K in a single TF trade? Yikes!

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Jreality, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. gaj

    gaj

    nor did i! and i think both books have lots of useful information in them.

    i did something like that last year with some of my favorite setups, with different graphs printed at the time, and then stuff like "breaks out, but comes back in with (parameters, timeframes, etc.)" for my notes, to know to exit or go the reverse direction.

    i really need to check out volman's book one of these days
     
    #301     Jan 15, 2013
  2. The bar-by-bar world is where its at.

    The hard right edge can be moved to the left and some clean space (the future) made available.

    Today, the interaction type of conversation has moved to Skype and GTM. ET is unable to deal in real time anymore.

    My view that to fast track working students, the best compromise is to deal with "looking for" a term that describes WMCN.

    All bars have an identity.

    I move over to the right of the Present and explain what is there although unseen.

    This means everyone in the GTM is focussed on how to take profits by carving in the very near future.

    For stocks, the auto sort lists work as terrific "looking for" lists because the column sort brings what stock is being looked for to the top of the list always. Coding the column logic makes this possible.

    This thread is about a topic used by risk takers. After a bet is made, they manage it instead of doing bar-by-bar analysis. The example is of a guy who mentors on the subject of analysis (when on the sidelines before getting to a bet). When in the market, this mentor doesn't continue to teach analysis; he switches to teaching the risk management method of "HOPING".

    His broker, assured that he could not go beyond his account value of ZERO. A very objective broker management process.

    Finally, I am documenting what I do. For my 56 distinct elements of the market bar-by-bar stuff, I have made snagits of six examples of each. They show how getting to a specific element happens. I think I will add some additional snagits of what happens after an element occurs. I'll call this what CW calls it: "Confirmation".

    Most elements have logic "kills" and/or logic "gates" associated with them. I collected all of these as another dynamic set of snippets so the reader could dwell on these in isolation of thought.
     
    #302     Jan 15, 2013
  3. Busta21

    Busta21

    What a joke. I trade more money than this guy could ever imagine and we would never, EVER, EVER trade that much size on the mini Russell 2000. Genuinely amazed, however, that he still attempts to educate. Also, who cares about winning everyday - any trader can make $50 a day and say they never have a losing day.
     
    #303     May 23, 2014
    wouter likes this.
  4. ees

    ees

    I was one of the people "in the room" (remotely) with him when he had that loss. I watched it happen from start to finish. I believe he hit a loss of 308k when he got the margin call. At the time I was a member of Trade The Markets, and was "in the room" with him every day - - I did not take most of his trades. He had been brought in by Hubert Senters and John Carter to join Trade The Markets. I tolerated Rob because there was no other choice, unless I wanted to drop TTM altogether, but I found him overbearing and pompous. Unless he had other trades going on that he was not sharing with the room, that were earning him huge profits, he had many days in a row where he would end the day up $50. His whole philosophy was patience for the right set-up, and don't move a muscle without the right set-up. Even IF he averaged $150,000 in clear net profit for Trades-ONLY in a year, he still blew 2 years of work in that one trade. It was not long after that, that TTM and Hoffman parted ways. I have no doubt his loss was the reason.

    On a side note, I am not currently a member of TTM, as I am not entirely convinced that they are "all that" either. My general opinion on these types of paradigms where there are the expert traders "sharing" (selling) their knowledge is that, they probably would not be so keen to share it, if it were so "guaranteed" profitable. They are in it for the massive profits they can make from selling the sizzle of their trading. No big surprise.

    Perhaps in time I may feel differently, and can learn from this sort again, but for now, I am leaving it to those who may be wiser than me.
     
    #304     Oct 28, 2014
    RichardRimes likes this.
  5. ees

    ees


    As I commented in another reply (please pardon the repetition), I was "in the room" that day and saw the entire trade happen. The trade was in a losing position almost from the start of it. He just continued to leverage and lose. It was sad, but he deserved it. He had spent months hammering us in the room with his "I'm such a genius" routine. He talked non-stop, but offered very little trading substance.
     
    #305     Oct 28, 2014
  6. wouter

    wouter

    I am in his room now. Nothing has changed.
     
    #306     Oct 28, 2014
  7. JackR

    JackR

    Wouter:

    Does he still teach Martingale? (Averaging Down). Or has he learned from the $308K loss?

    Jack
     
    #307     Oct 28, 2014
  8. wouter

    wouter

    PM'ed you. Will have talk with Rob today and want to wait until I see what he says before I post more. I wrote a report on his room last night but did not post it. See how the conversation goes.
     
    #308     Oct 28, 2014
  9. LOL.....Why blindly listen to any GURU who uses smoke-n-mirrors to get your money. They sell subscriptions for a reason, they need money!! You sheep will listen to them and NOT ask for statements or P/L or anything....you just listen to whatever they say until it's too late. You should sue him for fraud. And then slap yourself for being so dumb to give an internet salesman money based off zero facts. every year people fall for the internet gurus...and the internet gurus always say "i am different, but you cannot see my P/L statement that is audited."
    now sign-up for my class for only $4000!!!!!!!
     
    #309     Oct 28, 2014
    Busta21 likes this.
  10. wouter

    wouter

    Had a good talk with Rob. We're on the same page now. This mornings session was also really clear on what is what. I don't know many who will take the time to listen, offer good suggestions and he is reviewing my QA that he has all his new students do so he can answer their concerns in trading and help.

    Last week he collected survey information from his class to see what he could do more of and less of. I think there will be some changes and all that can go the right direction.

    One thing I did is start a separate notebook in One Note and I now have a super organized way to keep track of what I learn. I can highly recommend One Note.
     
    #310     Oct 28, 2014