Deutsche Bank and FXCM Connection

Discussion in 'Forex Brokers' started by Veyron 16.4, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Hell and new to the forum.

    Been trading since 2001. Started in equity options and then made the move to the currency pair market. I've always had an account with FXCM and have never been a happy customer for a number of different reasons.

    Getting ready to make a larger deposit into my trading account and realized that FXCM is not the broker that I wish to continue my relationship with. I've checked out many Forex intermediaries (Saxo Bank, PFG Best, IBFX, IFX, CMS, GFT....) just to name a few and have never been impressed with any of them.

    So, I took my time, waiting and hoping for a "Real Bank" to get in the retail game with workable trading platform that runs on windows. Sure enough, Deutsche Bank entered the game. I figured, with their name recognition, that "they" would finally bring some credibility to the broken-down retail broker market segment, where corruption is the rule rather than the exception.

    So, I began doing my routine FX Intermediary homework on dbFX. What I discovered bothers me a great deal.

    1) Instead of developing their own trading platform, they decided to use the same one developed by the corrupt, FXCM.

    2) Their old online application URL used to require you to mail-in your application to an FXCM address in New York.

    3) Their old IP Domain range used to point to the FXCM data center in New York.

    4) During chat sessions, they would always proclaim that accounts held and trade processed, would always be done through dbFX holdings and servers.

    That was then - a couple years ago.

    This is now - today.

    Here is the latest chat session that I had with dbFX regarding the old IP address that used to check out with WHOIS as belonging to FXCM. You won't believe how this chat session ended.

    Please wait for a site operator to respond.

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: Welcome to dbFX Instant Messenger. How may I help you?

    Ted: Hello, is this a branch of FXCM?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: you've reached Deutsche Bank
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: dbFX is the retail FX desk

    Ted: Do you share the same office as FXCM?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: we do not, we license their technology for our product
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: it is only the front end, your counterparty is always Deutsche Bank

    Ted: I'm a potential customer for DBFX, so that's why I'm asking these questions.

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: please do, I understand
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: are you currently trading FX?

    Ted: Yes, I am - with FXCM. Are you aware that DBFX and FXCM, share at least one IP address together?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I am not, it is possible we utilize the same data center for our servers
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: to reiterate
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: and I can send you the client agreement
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: your legal counterparty is Deutsche Bank and your funds are held with Deutsche bank

    Ted: I used to work for Oracle, in their corporate Data Center. I used to (help) run it. Are you saying that DBFX and FXCM, might "share" the same DC?
    Ted: I understand where the funds and account are held. My concern is where the technology is held.

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I am not an expert in the technological aspect Ted and cannot comment
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: We do license their technology

    Ted: Well, maybe you can help me with this:
    Ted: This address is where DBFX used to ask people to deliver their on-line applications. Does this look familiar to you?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: may I call you?
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I'd be happy to discuss and explain

    Ted: I'd like to chat about this first, then make a decision on which intermediary I should be on the phone with - is this ok?
    Ted: I can type fast.
    Ted: Don't worry.

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: well this would be a better conversation to explain over the phone
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I have already stated
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: that we are your legal counterparty
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: and your funds are held with us
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I can send you the client agreement as well

    Ted: When you first started, anybody who submitted their application would do so through But, when you run the WHOIS on that domain, it used to come back as: Forex Capital Markets, LLC 32 Old Slip, 10th Floor New York, NY 10005 US.
    Ted: That address belongs to FXCM. Can you explain that?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: Ted I have stated several times what this product is

    Ted: I realize what you are saying now. What I want to know is "when" did it change and why did it change?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: do you have any questions about the product itself?

    Ted: Are you not going to answer my question regarding the address that DBFX used to use for application processing?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: again, we license their technology
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I am happy to discuss
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: the product, execution, etc.
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I can only repeat this so many times

    Ted: I worked in the tech sector for 10 years. I specifically worked with strategic partnerships where companies would share technology. I am familiar with how it works. However, the application process is different, entirely. I want to know if I'm dealing with a reputable company, or not. If you used to use FXCM's address for application processing, then I have the right to know that and you should have no problem in explaining to me whether DBFX did or did not use FXCM's address for that same purpose. Can you please answer that question for me?

    dbFX Sales and Client Services: if you do not have further questions regarding this product, then I will have to politely end this conversation as there is nothing further to discuss here
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: I have answered this several times
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: feel free to come back should you have questions about the product
    dbFX Sales and Client Services: cheers
    Chat session has ended.

    And, just like that, dbFX was gone. All without answering my question about WHY the online application URL remained the same, while the mailing address for the application documents had changed from FXCM, to Deutsche Bank. Why this dbFX representative refused to answer the question and then terminated a chat session with a potential customer, is beyond me.

    If dbFX wants to convince people that it is not directly connected with FXCM's back-office, then it is going to have to come clean on WHY it used an FXCM mailing address for account applications in the past and then subsequently changed that mailing address to one belonging to Deutsche Bank, while keeping online application process URL that same.

    An even bigger question is this: Why would a bank, so large and so "reputable" as Deutsche Bank, even think twice about establishing ANY kind of business relationship whatsoever, with the likes of FXCM, a forex broker known for unethical business practices?

    It makes no sense whatsoever.

    I need a REAL bank to trade currency pairs. Not some back-room "White Label" joke with ties to a broken, unethical and reckless bucket broker like FXCM/dbFX/et-al.

    Anyone know of a real bank with a real trading platform offering real trade execution in the currency market? Does any such creature exist?
  2. Jason Rogers

    Jason Rogers ET Sponsor

    It sounds like you've had a bad experience. Any reason you're unhappy with FXCM?

  3. FXCM is a known bucketshop that screws you so bad...

    BTW : the server of DBFX is the same as that of FXCM , they just use the "good name" of Deutsche to attract victims
  4. Jason Rogers

    Jason Rogers ET Sponsor

    When did you trade with FXCM and what was your experience like?
  5. skot99


    Only way to trade FX is on the CME. Open an account with Advantage Futures, get X Trader or Ninja.. 0 pip spreads, instantaneous light speed execution..
  6. You still have a one PIP spread between the BID/OFFER!
  7. Forex


    I think you need a lot of money (millions of dollars) to get in to the highest level of currency trading.

  8. arctrader



    You did weird post. Read it again. Nothing follows from your conversation with dbfx rep, that shows that dbFX and fxcm are the same company. As an IT person you imply, that company is something related to a platform/domain/address/etc.

    No, it not at all.

    From legal point of view a company is a pile of papers. That's why dbFX rep suggested you to see a contract. That's the only thing that makes sense.

    Conclusion abt whitelabeling goes directly from the your point company is something related to a platform :)

    They may accept your application from any partner URL provided that legally they is separate entity. It is not illegal. It is not suspicious.

    Take a contract. Check the information abt legal counterparty. That's it.

  9. vilas


    You are right, Pavel. This thread must be the most stupid thread I have read. Why ET should allow this sort of posting is a mystery - total waste of time.