Destriero - Butterfly Trades

Discussion in 'Options' started by ironchef, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. Bomp

    Bomp

    Lets take a look at TESLA as it has high IV and probably has ton of IV curve craziness given the retail activity no this stock.

    Put Flies from mid taken from Yahoo Finance

    Fly 650-655-660 price is -27.500000000000213 with max payout of 472.4999999999998
    Fly 655-660-665 price is 2.500000000000213 with max payout of 502.5000000000002
    Fly 660-665-670 price is -12.500000000000178 with max payout of 487.49999999999983
    Fly 665-670-675 price is -40.000000000000036 with max payout of 459.99999999999994
    Fly 670-675-680 price is 10.000000000000142 with max payout of 510.0000000000001
    Fly 675-680-685 price is -29.999999999999716 with max payout of 470.0000000000003
    Fly 680-685-690 price is -20.000000000000284 with max payout of 479.9999999999997
    Fly 685-690-695 price is -19.999999999999574 with max payout of 480.00000000000045
    Fly 690-695-700 price is -2.5000000000005684 with max payout of 497.49999999999943
    Fly 695-700-705 price is -27.499999999999503 with max payout of 472.5000000000005
    Fly 700-705-710 price is -22.500000000000142 with max payout of 477.4999999999999
    Fly 705-710-715 price is -17.499999999999716 with max payout of 482.5000000000003

    The IV Curves
    upload_2020-12-30_20-46-49.png

    Clearly the 670-675-680, and 655-660-665 are out of whack if you are able to execute at mids. From the IV chart you can see the culprits are 670 strike, and the little bump after the 655 strike.

    I build this script on the fly(no pun intended) so I hope its accurate. I did check a couple with my Schwab Prices though.
     
    #171     Dec 30, 2020
  2. COOL!!! Since we're talking butterflies...

    [​IMG]

    So excited! Can't wait.
     
    #172     Dec 30, 2020
    .sigma likes this.
  3. Yeah, that would be the sticky wicket. :) I recall destriero mocking someone because they had no idea of how to get good fills (which sent me off to learn how to do that, and has put a metric assload of money in my pocket since then), but other than legging in - which seems more like a coinflip than a learnable skill - I can't think of a way to get better at it with flys. If anybody has ideas in that direction, I'm all ears.

    @Bomp - what did you use to do that analysis? I've been cranking stuff out in Python/Jupyterlab/Databricks CE/etc., but that looks like a somewhat handier tool for the job.
     
    #173     Dec 30, 2020
    .sigma likes this.
  4. Bomp

    Bomp

    All done in python/jupyter lab. Just built some classes to price different strategies. Have to rely on Yahoo Finance, wish I had better data for options though.
     
    #174     Dec 30, 2020
    BlueWaterSailor and .sigma like this.
  5. .sigma

    .sigma

    as if 2020 wasn’t any less clearer, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news... but probability is an illusion. It doesn’t exist.

    whoops
     
    #175     Dec 30, 2020
  6. .sigma

    .sigma

    I thought I was the only one, but I’ve been studying the butterfly. Lepidopterra I think is what they are called.

    Single strike butterflies are called caterpillars

    Fly spreads with DOTM wings are called swallowtails

    I’ve been dabbling in euclidean geometry too, since the markets are literally FILLED with geometric patterns, the fly spread is no different. It represents a triangle obviously. But one thing that’s interesting is the angles of the triangle. Think of the risk profile of a butterfly, the body lines, what degree are they slanted? Then you realize by skipping strikes and ratio’ing the wings the degree will decree and now your entire spread has a different risk/reward.
     
    #176     Dec 30, 2020
  7. .sigma

    .sigma

    1B13D24B-5A60-45F0-8AF5-7DA23E4D6011.jpeg

    #GEOFLIES
     
    #177     Dec 30, 2020
  8. .sigma

    .sigma

    9BB38939-463D-4F72-ABBF-DC50E5409E2C.jpeg
     
    #178     Dec 30, 2020
  9. .sigma

    .sigma

    yeah, we can only speculate. But you made a great point. De la Vega was a contemporary reporting. So if he’s writing about the things he’s seeing that means these things exist. Did these things start existing the day of his observance? Most likely not, the markets he observed and speculated in were there already. So the establishment already had a market. Pretty advanced as well, once they realized to centralize the market into a building that’s when Antwerp Bourse came about. But I think the roots of the markets span back even to the 1400s. I’m talking about options on stock (joint stock companies), not Thales harvests. The concept of optionality goes back probably when man was mush in the mud, it’s a universal concept for us monkeys, trading goods and services.

    Pure speculating though, I’m still digging and researchin seeing what I’ll find, but this topic is fascinating.
     
    #179     Dec 30, 2020
    BlueWaterSailor likes this.
  10. .sigma

    .sigma

    I also wanted to ask you guys, does anyone know anything about Charles Cottles chart software? It’s called Diamonetrics, and it looks like he was pushing it around the time he published his two books (must reads, seriously.. probably the best books on optionality, way better than boring Naterberg).

    here’s what it looks like
    D31341A7-F928-4C21-864C-B4178562349A.jpeg

    Looks like you can use it on thinkorswim? But I don’t see it in the studies section?

    You can customize it, but it’s basically a diamond grid that is overlay’d on any chart.

    also, look at this:
    A44839FB-3771-4550-AD9D-531A4BB41D13.jpeg

    This is a spreadsheet/software that prices butterflies of all variants. I NEED SOMETHING LIKE THIS. I Know the elites around here have something like this, but I’m also curious if this software is still even available to the public?
     
    #180     Dec 30, 2020
    Flynrider likes this.