Dennis Gartman on Natural Gas-Advice Needed!

Discussion in 'Commodity Futures' started by brothertruffle, Jun 15, 2010.

  1. foo

    foo

    Better check your seasonals/facts over the last 15 years as this statement is not true in regards to NG this time of year. Not one year in the last 15 anyways has the fall months lead the charge over the winter months. Not once.
     
    #21     Jun 18, 2010
  2. Hey, aren't you the guy who told me in the summer of '87 that the stock market never goes down 20% in a day?
     
    #22     Jun 18, 2010
  3. foo

    foo


    No.....but if you are saying anything is possible well, I guess anything is
     
    #23     Jun 18, 2010
  4. Contango is a product of storage economics. You have the capacity to store something, do you buy the cheapest price you can? (Yes you do). If July futures traded .05 over August, you would buy the cheaper August for injection, for not only the .05 better pricing, but for the time value of capital as well. So that creates a lack of demand in the summer month of July, when we have excess supply for injection, thus creating a falloff in price relative to the august. There is an operational reason that contango is granite in the summer months.

    As far as what Gartman is saying, he is spot on. He is talking about natty ETF's and their structural problems dealing with contango. If you were astute enough to do a tiny bit of research, what you would find is this. Using the current price of roughly 4.875, today UNG is trading 8.25. Now let's look at past months when prompt gas was trading at roughly 4.875 and where UNG was trading:

    6/21/10 $8.25
    2/22/10 $9.01
    12/09/09 $9.11
    9/29/09 $11.77
    2/9/09 $19.91

    If that isn't a nasty illustration of contago effect on UNG, I don't know what is.
     
    #24     Jun 21, 2010
  5. #25     Jun 21, 2010
  6. dhpar

    dhpar

    #26     Jun 21, 2010
  7. Daal

    Daal

    Guys, think about it for a second, why arent you all shorting UNG if its guaranteed that contango will lose you money?Sorry, no free lunch here, what happened in the past could change
    Either contango or backwardation had to had a historical losing record, turns out that it was contango, keyword is WAS, who knows what will happen in the future
     
    #27     Jun 22, 2010
  8. bt116

    bt116

    No one said contango guarantees a loss. what was said was that as the fund rolls, the front month has to make up the amount its losing just to break even. every single month.

    thank you for your insight. thought provoking.
     
    #28     Jun 22, 2010
  9. Daal

    Daal

    So in theory you could go short commodities in contango and long commodities in backwardation and capture this 'no risk' premium while keeping your net commodity exposure close to 0.

    Now maybe this is some kind of ETF/ speculation effect that distorts prices above their likely future price and fading can consistently win as a long the dumb money continues to plow money to these instruments but I wouldn't be as sure as some people that comment on this that this will continue
     
    #29     Jun 22, 2010
  10. bt116

    bt116

    Thats not what I said. I think if you want me to make a blanket staement that I would stick behind, I would say that buying UNG while the underlying natural gas curve is in contango is just really dumb since you are paying to roll every month the market stays in contango.
     
    #30     Jun 22, 2010