Dems starting to screw up already

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Daal, Feb 4, 2007.

  1. neophyte321

    neophyte321 Guest


    I should qualify, OUR minimum wage in the good Ole' US of A barely qualifies, considering less than 5% are effected by it.

    EXPLAIN YOURSELF.... how do you work "NEOCON" into this discussion?

    The dude is portraying our living standards in a negative light ..... talk about splapping yourself in the face. There are more than a few millionaire skate-boarders in this country, perhaps we should slap some wage controls on them ...

    :p
     
    #31     Feb 5, 2007
  2. The biggest difference between the traditional conservatives, and neocons, is neocons universal refusal to compromise on any issue.

    The handful few Republicans who voted against raising the minimum wage, mostly overlap the same people who support nearly every other aspect of Bush's neocon policies. None of the "traditional" conservative Republicans voted against the bill. So I have to conclude that the staunch opposition to the minimum wage must be one of neocon's issues.

    Neocon (sometimes called neoliberalism) is really the combination of the worst of conservatism and liberalism.
     
    #32     Feb 5, 2007
  3. neophyte321

    neophyte321 Guest


    It looks like I have egg on my face, considering how loose a term "neoconservative" is, your usage couldn't be considered incorrect necessarily.

    Although, I bet you could find millions of died-in-the-wool democrat, struggling business owners upset with the minimum increase, who would be aghast at being called neocons.

    It's a "nice" gesture, which will result in some making more per hour, and many not making anything at all. It's a job killer, pure and simple. I agree with Buckley, and typically do:

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjIwMTRlNjhiYzQ1NTNjNTUzNjVhZTcwOTYxZmQxZGE=
     
    #33     Feb 5, 2007
  4. Most of those business owners would be willing to compromise. Cost of doing business, if you like. That separates them from the neocons, who never compromise.
     
    #34     Feb 5, 2007
  5. neophyte321

    neophyte321 Guest


    NOW, I'm begining to have issues with your usage of the term, considering your defintion of neocon includes a reglious zeal toward the free-market, and as we all know, the free-market is heavily dependent on compromise. Two parties coming together, agreeing upon the terms, and executing a transaction.

    There is NO COMPRIMISE in government mandates.



    com·pro·mise /ˈkɒmprəˌmaɪz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kom-pruh-mahyz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -mised, -mis·ing.
    –noun 1. a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.
    2. the result of such a settlement.
    3. something intermediate between different things: The split-level is a compromise between a ranch house and a multistoried house.
    4. an endangering, esp. of reputation; exposure to danger, suspicion, etc.: a compromise of one's integrity.
    –verb (used with object) 5. to settle by a compromise.
    6. to expose or make vulnerable to danger, suspicion, scandal, etc.; jeopardize: a military oversight that compromised the nation's defenses.
    7. Obsolete. a. to bind by bargain or agreement.
    b. to bring to terms.

    –verb (used without object) 8. to make a compromise or compromises: The conflicting parties agreed to compromise.
    9. to make a dishonorable or shameful concession: He is too honorable to compromise with his principles.
     
    #35     Feb 5, 2007
  6. Interesting that you point out the contradiction.

    Such contradictions are not uncommon for neocons. A lot of them are called chickenhawks. You know what that means, don't you?
     
    #36     Feb 5, 2007
  7. Where do I start? I do watch state television, and yes some of the programs are decent and entertaining, but what bugs me is that I am forced to pay for a channel I have not asked for. Give me a choice. It’s really just a tax hurting poor more than rich. Like most I also pay 50$ a month to get more than 2 channels. Some of them american, like bloomberg and discovery etc. maybe my expectations are low but I think the quality is ok.

    Yes would be interesting to compare the statistics of accident deaths from drinking and driving from Norway and compare them to the rates of the US. But I’m not sure the numbers looks better here, drinking is just not a skill set most Norwegians possess. We hardly drink in weekdays, but then we drink like there’s no tomorrow at weekends. This is not why we should pay much for alcohol, this is the unintended consequence. Besides booze cannot be blamed for anything, it’s the person drinking..

    Living in Oslo I don’t need a car, I can walk or take the subway, so Iv chosen not to have one and rather fund my trading/investing account faster. I need money to do what I want. Government is blocking my way stealing 70% of what I earn. It’s probably never easy to start a business, but big government makes it harder than necessary. Free education is helpful, but there’s more to social mobility than just throwing free education at everyone.

    About our education being superior, not so sure, its not like we have 8 of the 10 top ranking universities in the world and pull home half of the Nobel prices like USA. Being only 4.5 million people is of course a disadvantage.

    Middle class paradise? Maybe if u enjoy being a bureaucrat and ignore the fact that u are doing nothing productive, just sitting on the backs of workers and entrepreneurs. Wealth needs to be created, but we have oil and gas so why bother. Things are good, but they could have been a lot better if we adopted more capitalism.
     
    #37     Feb 6, 2007
  8. Cesko

    Cesko

    Middle class paradise? Maybe if u enjoy being a bureaucrat and ignore the fact that u are doing nothing productive, just sitting on the backs of workers and entrepreneurs.

    There are too many people in the U.S. and on this board who would say you are wrong, bureaucrats are people solving social ills, protecting you from evil corporations, saving humanity from ecological disasters etc..

    In a way the oil is a curse.
     
    #38     Feb 6, 2007

  9. Look, we could debate it forever. You reside in a country where crime is almost non-existent, most people have decent very stable jobs, 6 week vacations, Social Security benefits and health care that put US to shame, the environment is pristine, almost no poor people. Most people seem happy and content. I wish I could live in Norway and it is not because I am homeless in the US. Quiet the contrary, I am probably in top 10%, yet I repeat, I would still prefer Norway over USA.

    As for cable TV, there are a bunch of stations worth watching, but most of the rest is garbage. A nice way to keep "the rabble" occupied and entertained so they do not ask certain questions and do not ask for more. Give them QVC and allow them to take vacations in Disneyland or Las Vegas and most will be content.

    As for education, trust me as an educator for past 15 years who had received his education in three different countries, I assure you, American education is in my opinion the least advanced of Developed nations. yea there are a couple universities that are high quality but even there it is not all that rosy. After all Bush graduated from an Ivy league school - does it show????? Trust me there are many just like him - ignorant pompous fools with a fancy diploma and a fat trust fund. As for general education/public schools - most people do not know how to read and write and no I am not exaggerating. Come visit and see for yourself.

    The transportation part for you is easy. Basically your government decided to invest in infrastructure and as a result you can take a nice clean and safe train to work. Here in the states most people with money live 20 to 60 miles away from their work because living closer would make them reside in places where there is a lor of crime,poverty, bad roads, bad schools and houses that look like shit. So they move to fenced off places where they had to pay 12K a year in property taxes and another 6K in car payments to live in a decent place. Most Americans are in debt up to their ears, is it because they make too much???? How are Norwegians when it comes to having money in the bank?

    You argue that your gov. is stealing 70% of your earnings. Well, mine is stealing a little bit less but in return gives me bad roads, bad trains, bad schools, louse service, lousy SS that may or may not be there when I retire, louse policing. Now in order for me to remedy all these bad services I have to spend major $$$$. So in the end I live in a country where I need to spend 12k a year on property taxes, at least 100K more for housing to live in a decent area, another 10k for car payment, insurance and gas to get to my work and another 10K for kids elementary education. University here costs at least 20K a year. So you pay 3 dollars more for gas and I spend extra 100K on my sons education, which you get it for free. Wanna switch places with me sometime?


    Since you claim that Norway is such a stinker, how come I do not see illegal Norwegians in the US? I happen to know alot of scandinavians here in te US (3rd. and 4th generations) and when they go back to visit, they cannot believe how much more prosperous those countries are compared to the stories they heard from great grandparents.

    Look one way to experience USa is to come here and see for yourself. Hop on the plane and experience 'the paradise" for yourself. Then, if you really want to see how a market economy can f..k up a country, hop on another plane and fly to Mexico or any other place south of the border for that matter. I guarantee, you will kiss the ground once your plane lands back in OSLO.
     
    #39     Feb 6, 2007
  10. Many Norwegians prefer to put their money in the bank, very risk averse. Often inflation and taxes eats up more than the nominal interest rate.

    Heey I enjoy reading your perspective, u do get something right I need to travel more :)
     
    #40     Feb 7, 2007