Okey Iâm from Norway, let me give u some highlights from the Social democratic heaven Norway. Consumption tax 25% Income tax 7.8-47.8% Capital gain tax 28% Wealth tax: 1.5% of wealth. And then there is all these indirect taxes and excise duties. The list is very long. http://www.dep.no/fin/norsk/tema/skatter_avgifter/006071-230269/dok-bn.html Buy a house? 2.5% of the price goes to the government. If you own a TV you have to pay 350$ each year to NRK (the Norwegian broadcasting corporation) even if you never watch that channel. Everything is more expensive because of these excise duties. The cheapest bottle of whine you can buy on the state owned Whine monopoly costs around 13$. We pay around 6.7$ per gallon for gasoline. Ok Iâm whining Iâm whining. $64,193 nominal GDP per capita is nice. Better than the US $42,000. But living costs are a lot higher, partly because of the fact that minimum wages are a lot higher, comparing PPP numbers reveals that the living standard is about the same, Norway $42,364, USA $41,399. 70% of our income goes to the government, how much in USA? To compare the Scandinavian model, or the Norwegian model as we call it with Capitalism I think itâs fairer to compare Sweden and USA. Oil, water energy and other natural resources explains much of the high Norwegian GDP number. GDP (PPP) Sweden 31,600, GDP (PPP) USA 41,399. The thing about democracy money buys power, power buys money, once a country starts to move left it seems to me thereâs no stop, the government wants more more more. Unions, special interests and the government marry each other. Helping each other to pull society more and more left.
Never had a job that paid over time and don't know anyone who gets it. I have worked many more hours than the standard work week and day before. Most of the people I know work what it takes to get the job done. I am not against decency. We have a minimum wage now that is usually reserved for cashier jobs at Wendy's. We also have protection on the other end, stopping employers from expecting to much of your life. I am arguing against the extremes. If you glance at my first post in this thread. All I want is for us to view the ramifications of our decisions before we get into the situation of the guy from Norway. I have always treated the people that serve me with respect because I did their job at one point not very long ago. But I expect the same work ethic and respect I brought to my minimum wage jobs being reflected back at me. I haven't seen much of it lately. I have seen destain, lack of care, and increased expectations from workers and students who haven't earned the right to feel that way. It's not about the numbers and a few extra dollars a week, it's about human nature and the propaganda being slung about. We'll see sooner or later what have molded the poorer people of this country into. For right now the numbers say that people who come to this country for the opportunities here with out the expectations of being handed anything make dazzling strides. The people who have grown up in the US hearing the social progressive mantra's over and over, will be the people you curse behind the counter because they don't care what you wanted on you sandwich. JIM
Personally my work ethic has always been modified by the employer. If said object of reverence chose to expose me to chemicals and danger and mal treatment I did very little work, if said object of reverence chose to conduct business in a way that was good for everybody, the customers, the employees, the environment, I found that I could work way, way above my job description. The thing is the only employers wherein I worked way above the minumum were Jews and Europeans, I never had a white bread American employer that did not treat me like shit and I had a bunch. So much for that. Thanks for letting me vent a tad. What countries have historically been very into the wage controls?? All the Marxists and Mexico that I know of. Of those, how many had a great economy?? I rest my case. Of course they had price controls too, not sure about Mexico. It is possible that the wage controls without the price controls are minimally invasive to the workings of the labor market. To me, the current stuff coming from the left is just grandstanding and vote buying and boring. It's probably basically unconstitutional as well. Most of what the Fed does is unconstitutional unless you just say that the constitution is a living changing document, which is to say you don't care much what it says really. It is unconstitutional for the Fed to run schools for example but they do it. They put the money out there and if the local school district wants the money they have to ignore the unconstitutional part, and they virtually all do. Then they have to follow the federal guidelines if they want the money to keep coming in. Does the Mob work much different from the Left??
Another neocon shooting off his mouth without any real knowledge. Japan has the most rigid wage control system of any country in the world outside of the former Soviet bloc. It has had a minimum wage since 1948: http://www2.mhlw.go.jp/english/outline/04-10.htm It's considered one of the key factors of its economic success. China's fastest growing regions all have local minimum wage laws. In fact, in Guangdong, the minimum wage has been in place since 1994 and has been raised several times, each time coincides with a spur of economic growth. Here is the most recent raise of 8.61%: http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/en/web/article.php?article_id=50226
James, The link you cite to CLW says that wages have remained stagnant since the '80's. So how is that progress? Also, China IS a communist country, so I think you at least in part make maxpi's point. The Japanese appear to have a min wage system that is based not only on region, but occupation. I guess if you have to have a min wage law, that would be the logical way to do it. $7.00 in Mississippi is a lot more than in Cailf or NJ.
what do wage controls have anything do with being a "neocon". "without any real knowledge", when insulting someone, it's best not to make an arse of oneself when doing so. A minimum wage barely, if at all, qualifies as a wage control. Minimum wages are a feel-good measure whose purpose is to make the legislator feel good about him or herself. Small businesses, whose failure rates are already extremely high, take the brunt of it. For a trading site, there certainly are many socialist leaning people here.... http://www.worldbank.org/research/journals/wbro/obsjul93/wage.htm The World Bank Research Observer Volume 8, Number 2, July 1993 Wage Controls during the Transition from Central Planning to a Market Economy by Fabrizio Coricelli and timothy D. Lane Wage controls have been integral to the stabilization programs of the formerly socialist countries of Central and Eastern Europe that are now moving toward market economies. The usual rationale for such restrains in "heterodox" stabilization efforts has been the need to break the momentum of inflationary expectations. In economies in transition the evasive weakness of governance of state enterprises supplies an added imperative: the controls are needed to hold the line against pressures for excessive wage increases, which must ultimately be paid for by decapitalization of firms, reduction of tax revenues, or accumulation of enterprise debt. Examination of the design and enforcement of various systems of wage control leads to the conclusion that wage controls inevitably distort decisions on employment and work effort. These distortions, moreover, are the result of the same features of state enterprises that necessitate wage controls in the first place. Ultimately, the only way to avoid such distortions is to remove uncertainty about the timing of privatization, to ensure that workers and management have a well-defined stake in the newly privatized firms, and to establish financial discipline over the enterprises. .....
My paycheck here in good old NY USA is cut by 35%. That includes Federal, stat, city taxes, FICA, and SS among others. There is a sales tax in the amount of 8.25% I guess you guys would call it consumption tax. When I bought my house, my closing costs (taxes, fees and other add ons) were close to $24,000. Since the price of the house was around 600,000 that comes to 4%. My property tax is around $4000/year. My TV bill is close to $50/a month and out of the 120 channels, I watch maybe 5. Still I must pay for all or get none. So your money goes to support state television which if it is like Public TV in USA, is actually educational and on a very decent level. My TV money support moronic programs that I would not let my dog watch for the fear of him losing his IQ, which by the way is higher than most yahoos watching this garbage. As for the bottle of wine, you know why you guys pay so much for alcohol. It is done to discourage people from boozing. I would love to see the statistics of accident deaths from drinking and driving from Norway and compare them to the rates of the US. Now, here in the states we just had superbowl. This is the day when the number of battered women is by far the highest. Di I blame football? No I blame the booze that comes with it, so making it more expensive is beneficial imho. As for gasoline, its $2.7/gallon but because most people drive bigger cars in the states (btw. most of us here would not pass the stringent and demanding tests required for a driver license in your country) and live further from their work, in the end the average expenditure for gasoline would probably be the same. I or example take a train to work, but my wife drives and our gasoline bill is around $100/week. How much do you spend on gasoline? You yourself have stated that the income GDP is around the same for Norway and USA. Yet this is what you get for your money: 1. Much more advanced, superior and FREE education - in my travels to Scandinavia and from talking to people from your neck of the woods, I have noticed that unlike my compatriots here in USA: a. you can fluently speak a second language b. actually have an idea of what is going on in the world c. have read more than cliff notes in college d. have travelled extensively e. have interests and hobbies f. do not think that $$$$$ is everything 2. Cleaner, safer, dare I say more civilized society, country, and state. 3. More stability - labor laws do not allow foryour employer to just fire you on the spot for no reason. 4. Free & excellent health care 5. Appreciation for arts, culture and finer things in life. BUT, what is perhaps the most amazing thing about your standard of living is that you guys have nothing but some oil and gas under the North Sea. It is amazing that a little country which is 80% mountainous, covered in ice and snow without any major corporations, has been able to re-distribute wealth and create a middle class paradise. Now imagine what the US could have achieved for its citizens if we were to adopt the same system. It goes to show you, how much good the government can do if given the opportunity.
You must have not been to China. Wages in China have not been stagnant since the 80's. Ask anyone on the street of Shanghai or Shenzhen. Also, anyone (including the communist leaders in China) who thinks that China is still a communist country is delusional.