So sacrifice principles to get power? Why not just become repubs, that is what they do... Lie, cheat, steal to get power, then rationalize it as "the end justifies the means" is what criminals do....
I hate to upset you more than you already are but its not such a leap. 100 years ago our society viewed homosexuality and and pedophelia about the same. Now the times change and our opinions change, we are supposed to be flexible with right and wrong? Ok, so in 50 years if the prevailing wisdom is that 10 year olds can decide to fuck 50 year olds and I say thats not right will I be a close minded bigot? According to the informed I will be.
It means that I doubt homosexual marriage is a priority or principle of the majority of people who identify themselves as democrates. The fact that the national party keeps making it an issue probably keeps a lot of them home, and it certainly brings out a lot of republican voters to keep them out of office. I would dare say that one issue could have cost John Kerry the election.
OK, Brandon. Let's just have one last look at what you posted. On these boards I am forced to take you at your word, since I don't know your history. You said 'Why is it such a jump'. Okay? You didn't say "I am struggling with the possibility that...'. If you ask why it's 'such a jump', that means it doesn't seem that unreasonable to you, and you are asking why it is 'such a jump'. Right? . That's what 'why is it such a jump' means. It means that it ISN'T such a jump for you. Right? If you claim that you deny this, we are done and you are outed. It is such a jump because it is an idea only a fucking idiot would have. It is such a jump because there is no earthly reason to suggest that if gay couples are allowed to marry, that the streets will be filled with child-rapers hammering 2 year-old girls. Okay? Is that clear enough for you? Does that explain why it is such a jump? It is a jump because it assumes that gay sex and child rape are equally immoral, a point of view informed by religious fanaticism in some cases, and in many case, as I have stated, by an individual's fear of his own homosexual urges. That's why it's 'such a jump'. If you are undecided on the issue of gay marriage, you do not post asking why it is 'such a jump' from gay marriage to legalized child rape. I am sorry that you were indoctrinated into a culture of intolerance and religious moral superiority at an early age. It must be tough to get around that. All I can say is - please try as hard as you can. (sigh...)
We can agree on that. Again you resort to personal attacks when you have nothing else to say. Nick I really do not know where I stand on the issue. I am concerned though that we have become a country where it is not ok to say this is proper and right and that is wrong (unless you are telling someone that they have no right to judge someone else which is perfectly ok). There are things that are clearly right, there are things that are clearly wrong. One hundred years ago homosexuality was clearly seen as wrong, you could go to jail for it, the same for molesting a child. Today the "informed" have told us that a the choice to engage in gay sex and love should be celabrated because people are born gay and they are just being who they are. Well, pedophiles claim they are born as pedophiles too, that they have no choice in the matter, it's just the way they are. When will I be told to celabrate them for having the courage to "come out"? I hope never.
The Right has a hard time understand that gay marriage is not a stand alone issue. It is for them - because the Bible doesn't sanction it therefore it must be banned. The foundation of modern liberalism is the belief in individual freedom. That means that the government (or the Church) cannot tell people how to live their lives. My personal opinion is that homosexuality is abnormal, and should not be promoted. However, my own belief does not give me the power to stop someone else to practice that. I'm not talking about casually like paying for a prostitute. If they want to take it really seriously, and decide to live together just like other couples, then I have no reason to stop them - even though I disagree with them. So you say, let them live togehter, but let's keep marriage definition as between a man and a woman. The problem is, a lot of laws governing personal relationship are based on marriage. Unless all of these laws are rewritten, we cannot quite apply them to gay couples. (For most states, there is a definition of "common law marriage" for heterosexual couples living together without a marriage license). Well, like all "maried" couples, gay couples also have disputes, abuses, and other problems. We cannot leave them unprotected by the law, just because we disagree with their lifestyle. To make a constitutional amendment to define marriage to exclude homosexuals, is to either create a permanent underclass (which is bad for any society), or to present us with a monumental task of rewriting almost every law that touches marriage. Neither are good options. The best solution is to separate civil marriage and religious marriage.
I want to be clear that I think a constitutional amendment is stupid and such an addition would have no place in the document, hopefully it will never be added and if it is it will be quickly removed.
Wow, it is truly amazing that someone living in a Western country could be so incredibly misinformed. I'm not going to bother instructing you on the worldwide history of homosexual behaviour over the past 3000 years; suffice it to say that I can tell you something about yourself right now - you have never travelled more than 500 miles from the place of your birth, and reading books has never been something you've had any interest in. This is clear from your spelling errors, which pepper your posts. I am sorry to bring this up, but time and time again , we see these views being propounded by those who seem to have a less than complete education. You cannot blame us for trying, in desperation, to find a reason for these monstrous beliefs. I truly do not mean to demean you with this - it is just that we see it time and time and time again, over and over. We can be forgiven for suspecting a correlation. Again... ad nauseam...the fact that homosexuality is not learned behaviour does not mean that anyone who shows up at the door of the courthouse claiming that they have a genetic predisposition to this or that behaviour will be given carte blanche. For the life of me I cannot see what is so difficult about this. I said before and I will say again - the taking of an innocent life will never be legally condoned. The theft of personal property will never be legalized. The rape of a 2 year old infant by a sweating 32 year old pedophile will never be legalized. The fact that you are asking the question means that you consider homosexuality to be immoral in the same sense as child rape. It is a fallacy to say 'Since homosexuality was once immoral (in this country) and now isn't, won't child rape be next?' No, because 1. child rape is now and always will be universally condemned, whereas homosexuality is anything but. Sex with a child has been condemned in most cultures historically speaking, whereas homosexuality has clearly not. Historically, sex with a child has been tied to ideas relating to the acceptability of early marriage. The modern view of age of majority is consistent among 80% of the world's population and will never change going forward, just as a woman's right to vote will never be rescinded. 2. Homosexuality NEVER WAS IMMORAL. It was PROSCRIBED. It was THOUGHT TO BE immoral. In fact it never was. If you claim otherwise, you can go and join the other moral relativists on this site, with the head troll as your leader. Letting women vote was also THOUGHT TO BE ridiculous. Bloodletting for fever was also THOUGHT TO BE effective. The fact that you even ask the question is indicative of your programming, and what I am realizing now is that you actually can't see it. You can make reference to the fact that you were programmed, but you can't see that your views are a result of it. Fascinating, really. Anyhow, this is pointless. Just remember, if you're one of those homophobes who is homophobic because, although he has always identified himself as straight, he is having feelings of attraction to men (possibly to a close friend who is gay), please; it is unlikely that anything will happen if you experiment. Just don't let any members of your congregation find out. Perhaps do it in a different city.
tradernik, Still pounding the table for gay rights. The only right they should have is the right to clam up and stay in the closet. They are sick minded indivivuals who have no place in a decent society. Except the closet. I am actually not a gay hater, just understand if all men were gay, there would be no humans left on earth very shortly. Never seen a pregnant man. The human gene pool is getting weaker and weaker, that is why we keep producing these feminine girly men.
More personal attacks. I admit that I flunked spelling in the third grade and its haunted me from that time forward. Other then that I have done pretty well in life. I was born to a single mother in Iowa and lived there till I was 26. I finished high school and have no formal education beyond that. When I was 26 I moved to Sarasota, where I currently reside in one of the top rated gated country club communities in a home that cost more than my mom has probably made in her entire life and that I paid cash for. Along the way I have also paid for my sister to go to college, been a foster father to 7 children and am in the process of adopting 3 of them who's mother died and father was put into prision. Right now I'm back in Iowa to complete that and will likely have to stay here for the next several months away from Toni (who I have been with for 11 years but have not married). I have paid for the book costs and room and board for each of the top three students at the high school I went to and gone out of my way to get other forms of aid available to the kids in my home community because the average family income is under $15,000 and most kids do not think college is something that is available to them. I certainly did not. What I can tell from your posts is that you are a typical elitest asshole who actually more bigoted and closed minded than those you claim to be superior too.