When was the last time you read the parable of the prodigal Son? It is simple and elegant...yes? But you have complicated it with another parable you call "Genesis"...a parable I never used in all my teachings, though I was well aware of it. In my parable, the "wayward" Son leaves home with everything, and returns with nothing. He was greeted with a feast and a return to his full inheritance. How many simple parables does it take to screw in a light bulb? All I have described here is the problem and the solution. You still don't know what the problem is, and so do not know the solution. The problem is sacrifice, so it cannot be the solution. Your theology is a bloody mess. I am explaining why you are obfuscating the simple message of the prodigal Son. You are afraid of salvation! You are jumping to conclusions. To love God is not a sacrifice...nor does it call for a sacrifice. It calls for mercy. But you are willing to complicate this by calling my teaching services a sacrifice, saying that this is "all the complication we need". Brother, you don't need sacrifice or complications. You do need to understand what I am teaching if you wish to live. The world is meaningless. Is it a sacrifice to give up what is nothing in exchange for everything? It's important that you understand the valuelessness in what you choose to give to the Holy Spirit. He does not teach sacrifice, or ask for it. The crucifixion was about the ego forcing an elegant message to be a mess. And the message was indeed crucified and mangled beyond recognition...depending on how you see it. And you are left holding a mixed bag of messages, wheat mixed in with the tares. There is a big difference between what I taught and what you've heard through the grapevine. You have an alphabet soup of sound bytes, but do not know what they mean, which are true, or which are false. You cannot tell the difference. The early christians were desperate to build a bridge between me and the past, and what they really ended up with was simply a new version of the past. So you can find the thought system of the world in either the old testament or the new. But my thought system is absent from both. All you can do is catch a glimpse of what I thought. My reality was and is not the body. The world's thinking is completely based upon the body as your reality. These thought systems are mutually exclusive, and you will never be able to serve both these masters, so-to-speak. Those of you who are able to look past the body still maintain the idea of an individual existence, which is actually little different than having a body. I did not consider myself to be an individual, or anything special. In fact, what I meant by "I and the Father are one" is that I was giving up specialness-individuality-authorship in favor of accepting my true strength - the power of God - as the Son of God. Does that look like a sacrifice to you? Why? In fact, I did not look upon others as bodies, or make a body their reality. I did not acknowledge any difference between genders, because there is "no male or female" in reality. I treated every body the same - as though it did not exist. In so doing, I was able to look completely past body to the true light of unchangeable and immortal spirit that is the one reality of us all. But you have complicated that simple, elegant message by assuming I meant not to look at a woman lustfully. Why look at a woman when you can see something much better looking? As such, I could see that the Kingdom of God was present already, though unseen by people. And because they could not, or would not see it, the majority assumed that I would come back and implement it on earth. Most of my followers bought into the idea of a return as there was a diversity of opinion right from the beginning. Is that not evident to you? Yes, it was very complicated. At first they thought I'ld be back in a few years. Then they thought I'ld be back in a thousand years, then two thousand... Well don't hold your breath! As the years wore on and the going got tough, the leaders of a now-developing new religion had to improvise if they were going to hold anyone's interest. Before you knew it, you had people relating to me as the body of all bodies. And like you, they still believed that God made this world. This opens a whole can of worms, because no such God could be merciful or loving. And from this belief grew the idea that I was sent by such God to vicariously atone for peoples sins. Except now it get's even more complicated. Because according such doctrines, which you call "Christian", this really does not atone for anybody elses sins. If it did, that would be the end of it. Problem solved. But no! It now becomes necessary for every one to blindly believe in all of the details conveniently set forth exclusively by the Christian religion, or else they will still burn in hell, even if they happen to be born - presumably by God's will - in a place, time, or culture that isn't even familiar with this particular religion! Furthermore, those who do believe all of the fine print in the alledged atonement contract still feel guilty! So what is the use? Guilt, then, is made into a commodity to be valued for its sacred humility. And you believe that to feel guilty is to be humble. So it is really humility that you think buys off God's wrath and saves you. And while you persue this complicated path, you are humiliated. I did not come to humiliate you or myself. All of your bloody theology rises from a fearful image of God. And when implicate God in the making of this world, you must be fearful of Him. Now you must scramble to appease such god by offering it gifts that you think it would enjoy...such as the blood of its own son. You think such blood is more enjoyable, or more valuable because it is innocent blood. Now you are afraid to claim the innocence that Atonement offers you because you think you will become the next target of a blood-thirsty god. So you insist that you are forever "guilty" and call this "humility". You will never allow yourself to have complete faith in such a God! I saw past such a God, and put my complete faith in our true Father instead. I depended on Him totally. This resulted in a state of unbelievable psychological strength. Fear had no part in me. I knew that nothing could possibly hurt me because none of it was true. I merely observed symbolic images, including people, who weren't really there. I saw the world as an insignificant dream. But knowing the world is an illusion is not enough. To teach only that is of limited value. The Holy Spirit taught me much more than that, and I saw that He would teach all people all things. What is passing for my teachings - Christianity - is a mixed bag. If the mind that dreams this world is going to be healed, then it needs something that is not a mixed bag. Don't be a dim bulb and assume you know what your history is. History is written by the victors, and in Genesis, the victor is a snake. And in a conflict, the first casualty is the truth. I teach the whole truth, and you call it "complicated". Rather, you should be honest and call it "unwanted". The object is to wake up completely from this dream of death and joylessness. That is the meaning of the symbol of resurrection. What often passes for enlightenment is to be more awake within the dream. And there are always ways to approach the dream with a clever thought pattern or "secret" to success in an attempt to bring about something more, different or better. I am not advocating a way of making your delusions better, or telling you how to strive for self experession so you won't die with an unmet potential. Such exercises may make you feel better, but your still building your house upon the sand. The real goal is not dressing up your life. It's about awakening from what you think is your life! Then you are building your house upon the rock. "Heaven and earth will pass away" means that both will not continue to exist simultaneously. One will pass, the other will stay as it is. And all who dream in and of this world of separation will return to Heaven where they are really one. Does that sound complicated? But you have subdivided the future into Heaven and hell. I promise you, this world is hell, and it will pass away. You cannot put your full faith in a God who asks you to act foolishly. I do not ask you to "act". I ask you to do nothing, because there is nothing you can do. Your faith in the truth will be justified by the evidence that rises in support of it. Likewise, your faith in sacrifice will be justified by the evidence that rises in support of it. But only the truth is true. And you will suffer with the illusions you believe in. Jesus
I had responded with a more detailed post, but in re-reading what you just wrote... All I can say is this... I HATE circular Reasoning. Unlike you, I can put my FULL faith in a God that asks me to act so "foolishly" Even if it takes time on my part. It took Abraham years to get there. After he tried it his way and failed many many times.... But when he got there...... Of course I can only speak of these things with such conviction because, as you stated, Your faith in the truth will be justified by the evidence that rises in support of it. I have years of this evidence... Just like the scientific method, I hypothesized that I heard from God to do something. I tried out my ideas, they failed. I tried out what I believed I heard, and they work. after a few years of this experiment, I started listening to the "voice" of God and following it more specifically... In my rudimentary scientific method I realized he was real and he was smarter than me... So I believed even more ferverently.... Now we do agree on this FARCE called christianity. Yeshua never called his followers "Christians". And the rest is a mess.....
Giles, In response to the post you just deleted... Genesis complicates the simple message of the prodigal son by making his father the maker of the far off land in which the son found only misery. Genesis would lead you to believe this world is created by our Father...which is not true. To believe our Father made this world is to regard Him as insane. No father could subject a son to this as the price for salvation and still be loving. Nor would our Father make bodies, stuff us inside them, put them on the thin surface of a spinning ball of molten rock, and call it "home". The parable of the prodigal son makes no mention of a vindicative father who forms a posse to hunt down the wayward son and inflict him with so much trouble that he agrees to come home. Then, if the son decides to come home, the father locks him out of the house until he pays a price. But this is the version being taught in my name. Jesus
I Am... Genesis doesnt complicate that message.... (I'll cease from personal pronouns as best I can...) We misunderstand Genesis, when we attempt to "Put God in a Box." The box we put him in is this one. How can a Loving God create a place of misery for us. He can't, nor will he ever, but being that the Earth is His, he placed us in it and told us to have dominion... Giving us the right to determine what occurs in this place.... When our forefather Adam chose to go where he was forbidden, he brought death and destruction to this "Utopia" God created.... The prodigal son is the one who was in a place of utopia and foresook what he had to pursue a place of destruction. All to well do we know the implied allegory.... God/Father, Son/Us, Christ/Redeemer.... But to put in context with your understanding of the Genesis confusion I offer this..... The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a place of destruction.... Adam (son) chose to forsake what his father gave him (Garden) and pursue a life of lust and pleasure (Tree) Next Question.. Why did god create a utopia for man and then place a tree leading to death(destruction/seperation) there. He didn't. The tree was already there before he RECREATED the Earth (Gen 1:2) and placed man in the garden.... I also offer this., though the Garden was a Utopia, the TRUE Utopia was Adams relationship with God.... Inspite of being in a desert or in a wasteland of sorts, people who have relationship with God live in Utopia.... Thats why Paul could sit in a prison and say he was a free man..... Thats why there were those who were slaves that are recorded as saying they were more free than their masters... and so on..... Hence yeshua's parable....
I was hoping for something a little more elegant. This appears to be proof that the two parables do not mix and match. Even jem might consider it complicated. So you are saying a Utopia was made on the thin cooling crust of a spinning ball of molten rock orbiting an ocean of firey gas and pelted by occasional astroids? And you are saying that upon this rolling stone a creator inserted his beloved son advising him to stay within the Utopia area? And by wandering off from the Utopia area the son ruined the Utopia area because he neglected to water the plants? Or what is it you are saying? Are you saying that a creator gave a son a shabby place to call home, but that it does not matter because it's relationship that counts? Why don't the creator and his son live in the same place? Why is the son made different than the father, weaker, and remotely located? Are you saying that all the son needs to do to come home is to fix all of the problems in the world and make it into a Utopia again? Are you saying the Utopia is gone forever, but that if the son has a relationship with his father, it does not matter? Doesn't the son get his inheritance back? Add the idea of sacrifice to restore relationship and it get's even more complicated. Perhaps Einstein said it more elegantly...that a man's experience is an optical delusion of his consciousness. Jesus
The world is a mental problem. And the problem we're addressing at this time is the attempted reconciliation of two thought systems that cannot be reconciled. The parable of "Genesis" is hardly worth salvaging. God is unlimited spirit, and creates only like Himself...unlimited spirit. Can anyone really believe that bodies are made in the image of a powerful Spirit? Is it not obvious they are the weak opposite of everything a powerful Spirit is? Yet Genesis sets up duality as reality and attempts to pawn off bodies as our inheritance. In order to make the illusion of existence, you must take oneness and seemingly divide it, which is precisely what Genesis has done. But as some of your scientists of quantum physics already know, duality is a myth. And if duality is a myth, not only is there no male and female, and no tree of good and evil, there are no trees, and there is no universe! It takes two to tango. Without you to perceive it, the universe is not here. And if the universe is not here, you are also not here. But Genesis insists that duality is real, providing the necessary ingredient for interaction. For without duality, there is nothing to interact with. I conclude that Genesis was written by the snake. It deliberately obscures the real reason the prodigal Son left home. It attempts to project blame and guilt upon him, and paint his father as a petulant vindicative tyrant. It makes the world real, and binds the guilty to it. It loads the world with guilt, and demands death. It offers logic, but not reason. It offers a complicated mess, and not a drop of innocence for a thirsty world. It offers a problem, but not any solution. Genesis makes no sense. It is a snapshot of the worlds thought system, which is totally incompatible with the truth. For this reason, I never used the parable of Genesis in any of my teachings, even though I was fully aware of Jewish folklore. Note well: Adam makes one. And hell makes him two. Jesus
Elegance is irrelevant.... 1 Corinthians 2:1 - And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 1 Corinthians 2:4 - And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of manâs wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: Truth is whats important to me. I am so sad that what I said confused you, but I appreciate that you brought this to my attention so that I may grow..... ***** Note, I am editing for the sake of being succinct. You can read the entire verse to see that I am not changing it's original meaning..... The Earth as a whole was the Utopia. Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:26 - And God said..... and let them have dominion ..... over all the earth, Gen 1:28 - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over ... every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Exactly what I am saying. That would be incorrect. Nowhere was it stated that we were his sons. We were his creation, placed on this earth he created, enjoined to have dominion and control over it. Incorrect.... Again, No I did not say this.... I thought you understood I was using an allegory. To assist with an understanding of the simile between the 2 passages..... Perhaps I over simplified it (for me) and complicated it for you.... Yeshua Thanked his Father in kind.... Matt 11:25 - ... I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. When you attempt to remove faith from your arsenal, confusion reigns... Many reject God based on what THEY cannot prove only to find years later what they were unable to prove is now proven..... God in his Sovereignty reveals what he wants to reveal when he wants to reveal it. So again I repeat.... Adam was not his son, but his creation. No, I am not saying that. If it were the case, being that God, IMO, is a God of efficiency, why not create man first and have him fix the earth up to Gods Liking??? I am not saying that either.... I am saying that we need relationship with God It does matter. So I will paint another picture..... A Man and his Wife.... Faithful to one another, Loyal and full of integrity.... They are moving through life TOGETHER..... One falls to a disease (cancer).... The one is there during this challenging time to hold the other up.... The relationship Bond grows even stronger through this adversity.... They come through the challenge together.. More in Love with one another.... Happiness has returned..... Utopia in this passage is their life together.... A truly Good marriage is a source of Utopia... If one partner gets sick, Utopia is in turmoil, possibly destroyed... But, for the relationship between the two, One is able to carry the other through the challenge. Love and Support. (Relationship) Finally the sick one pulls through.... They rejoice and Utopia Returns... He that has an Ear to hear, so let him hear..... Not really complicated.... Lengthy, but Romans 8 clarifies this.... I'll pull two verses... Read the rest for yourself.... For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Now that is confusing. Are we all deluded? Our experiences are the visual reference of our deluded conciousness???? If we are all deluded, does that not include you and what you say as well... If we are all deluded (He did say Man's, he did not delineate between some men and all men, he said MAN.... He did not say some men were deluded and some where not deluded. he said MAN..... So that would include you as well, so I should take all that you say as a delusion...) Based on that mindset, My love for what God has done and provided for his people makes me fight for truth..... even in a state of delusion..... Of course I keep this in mind. Having Great respect for Einstein...Let us not forget..... The Jews rejected Yeshua as their Messiah.....
Would you please clarify. Did you mean "ROFL!!!! I have an invisible friend" or "ROFL!!! my invisible friend is actually real" or "ROFL!!!! I only do what I think my invisible friend tells me" .. or perhaps "ROFL!!!!" for some other reason? Thanks
Genesis is not a Parable..... It was not written to hid some meaning from those that God has not chosen to reveal it to.... It is an ACCOUNT of occurances..... If God only creates unlimited spirit, the Jesus was never the son of god, and you were not real..... However Genesis SAID that God created Man in his image and likeness. John recorded that the Word became Flesh..... What we have here my friend is a failure to understand language.... image.... what is an image..... I take a picture, I have an image..... How hard is it to believe God would create a man that looks similar to him. 2 Legs, 2 arms, a face, eyes, a nose, etc..... I guess if you assume Man is a waste (satanic in idea) then this would be difficult for you to receive. If you agree with einstein that man is Mad... then you would find it difficult to accept that God would create us in his OWN image..... Was the original man weak??? Or was he deceived???? OR...... COnsider this.... James 1:14-15 - But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death Adam saw the Tree. Adam saw the fruit. Adam contemplated what God said, but his curiosity got the best of him. What is that best... What God instilled in him.... But again, God gave Adam Dominion over EVERYTHING on the earth. Even if that EVERYTHING came with a price larger than Adam could imagine..... Adam made his choice...... Consider this. God is Powerful, yet he has made mistakes... or has he???? Lucifer was one such mistake... Or was it.... Lucifer was no mistake neither was Adam... Lucifer and Adam both were destroyed by Lust.... Where is this Genesis duality??? Please show it to me..... The Bible calls it "The Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL" The rest is a moot point... If you cant get one SIMPLE thing correct, why bother. Yeshuah Got it right. It is at this point what you say is pointless... I am no theologian, but I do understand the importance of accuracy..... If you perceive duality based on your inaccurate understanding of what you have read, then my friend, you are the one who is deceived..... You are the one who is confused..... I give you scripture so you can seek it out on your own.... I quote from the KJV translation as it is the most popular translation. Please be accurate and I will enjoy our discourse with one another.....