Thought I'd do a summary of what's kindly and generously been explained so far re RTL's: 1. Start rtl's from EE bar regardless of which type of EE. 2. Start BM from EE bar regardless of which type of EE. 3. If BM is pierced on 2nd bar, then cannot, and do not, draw rtl 4. If cannot draw an rtl from EE, then do not draw RTL for whole sequence (until new EE in opposite direction IOW's) 5. Fan around internals that have decreasing volume, "Waits" IOW's 6. Do not fan around translating bars and or internals with increasing volume. 7. Correctly squish Waits. IOW's vol on 2nd bar of internal is relative to the volume on bar before the squish. 8. Retro: So far my understanding is that we fan rtl's within RETRO as per the same "rules" when not in RETRO (?) re: "6. Do not fan around translating bars and or internals with increasing volume." Here is a chart snip from Jack, 7.15.2013: Which has 1 example (the 1st rtl on the chart to a down stitch) where an rtl is not fanned around an internal with increasing volume ? So this may still be up for review/discussion as and when (?) Corrections/comments welcome. http://screencast.com/t/ICkWC6bEq thx
If you're talking about Bar 71 he might not have bothered because PP1 occurred. I believe once a translating bar occurs when the rtl is in, it's locked in and isn't fanned any further. workwithus seems to fan his rtls on internals occurring after translation at times. Not sure which is correct.
Yes I see your point and agree. Well spotted, thx. The Jack chart was probably not a good example, apologies. (I find it very difficult to unravel the non no gaped charts). So "6" can a least be up for review as and when (?) thx
Yes, it's difficult because it would make sense at times to fan. I instinctively want to when we have EE, Translation, Internal. But it doesn't feel right when we have EE, Internal, Translation, Internal. See Bar 77 in your example. An FTP isn't fanned and the rtl is still active. Translation occurs one bar prior, so it appears like the rtl lock in I was theorizing about.
I'm pleased we're continuing to hash out how to correctly annotate or not annotate rtl's (including fanning or not fanning).I can find so many different contexts it gets a little crazy at times.But lets start with to fan or not to fan on internals occurring after a translation.We'll keep it easy for now with no retro.Check out this XR which is translating.Is this what you mean by translating heroic? If yes than on the third bar of this sequence would you fan or not fan? (volume is 40.2k,38.7k and 27.9k on each bar left to right) http://screencast.com/t/gOvn8otgK http://screencast.com/t/lwkFdSNYY
Here's another translating XR.Then the third bar shows up with increasing volume.Here is the volume on each bar starting with b1 from left to right.27.2k,26.9k and 27.9k. Do we fan this third bar? Why or why not? http://screencast.com/t/jeHMxNRVO3n http://screencast.com/t/glqw3aqybq
Yes the fanning after translating bars may be a further distinction: Meaning if an rtl has originated from translation bars then we do not fan around internals that come after the translating bars (?) Here an example from Jacks chart 9.30.2013: I appreciate the PP1 EE might be the reason for not fanning the up rtl. (I'm going to leave aside why a BO T1 is annotated having only had 3 P1's) http://screencast.com/t/te9BnQr1gOY
Check out the accelerated rtl drawn in this accelerated down sequence.Is this correctly annotated? Should i be accelerating the original rtl in this sequence? http://screencast.com/t/vMWu5yf79Dzv
This is what I am unsure about. My instinct is to fan these. Currently I have been fanning the first internal or lateral, but if translation occurs afterwards, than even on a second set of internals I do not fan. However, I have just been going off my best guess in accordance with instances I see on Jack's chart. The example is a little exaggerated, but look at this sketch. Should the Stitch R really be fanned this wide after the rtl has already been established? Or is BO T1 on Bar 4 a more accurate annotation of the market operation? It is difficult to say. Edit: Saw your last post. It's difficult to say what the correct conventions are. I haven't even seen a uniform set of rules on Jack's annotated charts, but maybe I just can't understand it. At least on a positive note, the rtl is used to prevent losses, and Jack does not even de-gap his because they are "good enough" without it. I've even seen left trend lines used sometimes at the open or on FOMC bars. I suppose if the price cases get too far away from the rtl it loses it's purpose of trying to catch sentiment changes before they go all the way back to the BM. Perhaps they are accelerated in that case with discretion.
Excellent question.Let's go back to jack's exact comment when asked about fanning "internals". "If an rtl is "in" an internal, then the rtl is fanned so the internal is made part of the channel. Closes are examined as the trend moves forward".In the question asked jack the "internal" was an increasing volume "internal" where price had closed outside of the rtl.Jack's chart showed this being fanned.So I fan if have an "internal" on dec or inc volume even if price closes outside the rtl on that "internal" bar (assuming no other EE triggers on this bar).I view stitches as "internals" also so they receive the same treatment.In your post assuming no other EE's trigger on the red stitch bar than yes its fanned.Tricky stuff sometimes. http://screencast.com/t/zE2WHJGE4Ouw