dbFX (Deutsche Bank)= OFF exchange broker???. most of the long agreement inclosed.

Discussion in 'Forex Brokers' started by aForexMinute, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. read this one carefully. They use tricky wording to distract the reader from what things refer to: Their Trade Platform is often referred to as their "On-line Facility" They say its for use only by it (?) and not a futures or securities exchange. (but is it a currency exchange?)

    even if it is an ON exchange platform- they have so many issues in their agreement that are not well. BOLD text is the important info Too much can be done without notifying you. They can freeze transactions, they can reject orders at any time- and don't have to tell you why!

    the following important sections of agreement were copied and pasted from their web site
    1.3 This Agreement comes into effect upon acceptance of your application by us at our office or processing center and shall supersede any previous agreement between us on the same subject matter. We will notify you of such acceptance in writing or by electronic communication. Deutsche Bank may vary or amend the terms of this Client Agreement at any time upon notice to you. Any amendments to this Agreement will be displayed on the On-line Facility (as defined below) or otherwise communicated to you. You will be deemed to have accepted such amendment if you continue to access or use the On-line Facility. We may offer other services from time to time that are governed by different or additional terms and conditions. The services that we offer hereunder are subject to any disclosures or disclaimers found within the dbFX website. We reserve the right to modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, a service (or any part thereof) with or without notice. You agree that we will not be liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension or discontinuance of a service.

    2.1 We will offer execution-only dealing services to you in relation to transactions in rolling spot foreign exchange contracts and such additional services as we may agree from time to time. We will not advise you on the merits or suitability of any transaction entered into pursuant to this Agreement. We will not manage nor monitor your investments. You acknowledge that our execution of any order on your behalf does not in any way imply any approval or recommendation of that transaction. Although we are not required to explain to you any risks that may arise because of a particular transaction we have set out various risk disclosures attached to this Agreement for your information.

    2.2 The counterparty to your transactions will be Deutsche Bank AG, London Branch. You will enter into each transaction with us as principal and not as agent on behalf of someone else unless otherwise agreed in writing by us. We shall be responsible to you alone and shall have no duties or obligations to your underlying customers (if any).

    3.1 We will provide you with "bid" and "offer" prices in respect of currencies through our Trading Platform or Dealing Desk. The prices that we quote are determined by us and usually represent a mark-up or markdown of inter-bank dealing rates. Each price shall be effective and may be used in a dealing instruction prior to the earlier of its expiration time and the time, if any, at which it is otherwise withdrawn by us. A price may not be used in a dealing instruction after such time. Each price shall be available for use in a dealing instruction for a transaction with a principal amount not to exceed a maximum determined by us. You acknowledge that these prices and maximum amounts may differ from prices and maximum amounts provided to other customers of ours and may be withdrawn or changed without notice. We may in our sole discretion and without prior notice to you immediately cease the provision of prices in some or all currency pairs and for some or all value dates at any time.

    3.2 Our service is restricted to executing transactions at the quoted prices at your request. When executing transactions we will not be executing orders on your behalf and accordingly we will not be subject to the obligation under the rules of the FSA (the "FSA Rules") to take all reasonable steps to obtain the best possible result for you.

    3.3 We may combine your orders with orders for our own account or the account of our affiliates or with those of other customers. By aggregating your orders with those of other customers we must reasonably believe that it is unlikely that the aggregation would work overall to the disadvantage of those customers. However, the effect of the aggregation may operate on some occasions to your disadvantage in relation to a particular order. We may fill your orders for a portion of the principal amount specified in the dealing instruction. In such event, the unfilled portion of the order shall remain in effect until withdrawn, cancelled or executed.

    3.4 We may require you to limit the number of open positions which you may have through us at any time and we may in our sole discretion close out any one or more transactions in order to ensure that such positions limits are maintained.

    4.3 We may, at our discretion refuse to accept any dealing instructions from you but will notify you of any such refusal, without giving any reasons, promptly following receipt of your instructions. In addition, a dealing instruction which for any reason, including failure of the On-line Facility to accept or process such instruction, is not received by us in a manner in which it can be processed shall be deemed rejected by us. We may cancel any instructions previously given by you provided that we have not acted on your instructions.

    5.1 In order to use our online trading and account review facility ("On-line Facility") you will need to request a username and password ("Access Code") from us. You will need to provide the Access Code each time you wish to use the On-line Facility.


    5.6 Client acknowledges that the On-line Facility is provided for use only by it. The On-line Facility is not a futures exchange or a securities exchange.

    8.1 You shall provide to and maintain with us margin in such amounts and in such forms as we, in our sole discretion, may require. We may change our margin requirements at any time.

    8.2 Any requirement for margin payments must be satisfied within such time as may be specified by us. Margin may be provided in the form of cash or if we otherwise agree, other collateral (by which we mean investments or any other property or assets acceptable to us in lieu of cash).

    8.3 We will hold cash margin in accordance with clause 11.

    8.4 Notwithstanding clause 8.6 below, we shall have the right to pledge, charge, loan or otherwise use or dispose of all or part of any non-cash margin or other property provided to us (together, "Property") as if we were the beneficial owner thereof. You agree that provided the investments returned to you are of the same description and amount as those used as security or collateral they need not be the actual investments held by you.
  2. MTE


    With all these posts you give the impression that you have uncovered some conspiracy or some secret info. All of the stuff in these agreements is pretty standard for a spot FX market, which is an OTC (over the counter) market. Anyone who is not aware of this stuff has no business trading spot FX.
  3. 4EXJOE


    dbfx is a white label of FXCM. Has nothing to do with Deutche Bank
  4. mr.az


  5. Yep.

    3.3 and 3.4...

    Basically tell you everything you need to know.

    This is NOT Interbank FX. You are not trading the Currency Markets here. You are trading their liquidity, their pools, their pricing and all of your trades are subject to their manipulation for acceptance, execution, duration and close. They tell you explicitly that THEY are your Counter-Party to ever trade.

    So, when they say they have "No Dealing Desk," they are not kidding! They don't need one because they are the entire Universe of FX Pricing that you will ever see on their platform. The explicitly tell you that all prices you see on their platform will be modified and marked either "Up" or "Down" from true interbank rates.

    But, here is the ONLY good part about this scenario:

    Deutsche Bank is the largest liquidity provider in the world for FX turn-over. As long as they remain the largest pool of capital for FX turn-over in the world, then that means that most all other datafeeds from the largest FCMs, Brokers, MMs, and Intermediaries alike, will have liquidity piped-in from Deutsche Bank one way or another. Furthermore, if the FX Intermediary did not have Deutsche Bank as one of their primary liquidity providers, then that would NOT be a trading platform that a Retail trader would want to use anyway.

    When you are the 500lb Gorilla in the room, you get to make the rules. I think that is the lesson learned from this post by all the Newbies out there.

    Would it be more fair for the Retail trader is Deutsche Bank provided true Interbank pricing to come through their dbFX platform, such that providers like Citi, UBS, USBC, Standard Chartered Bank, Barclays, etc., were made part of the price stream? Yes, it would be more fair, but they are not the world's largest.

    So, the question is, where in the world will the Retail Trader find the deepest liquidity, best protection of funds held on account, fastest and most reliable execution of trades and the least amount of trade manipulation. These are the questions the Retail Trader must resolve.

    I would put dbFX among the lease worst of fairly lousy bunch, mostly because they are a Bank and as such, your capital is better protected. However, Deutsche Bank should have NEVER gotten in bed with FXCM, on any level, whatsoever. That is a major drawback.

    The sweetest combination would have been a Retail Deutsche Bank offer on Currenex with multiple, aggregated price feeds from the Interbank. But, of course, WHY would Deutsche Bank ever create competition for itself, LOL! That's not how you remain the largest FX liquidity source in the world, folks.

    They are doing what they have to do, in order to remain the 500lb FX Gorilla. And, if you don't yet understand that, then you don't understand this side of the business.

    This is WHY you MUST HAVE a genuine Trading Edge, in order to generate consistent profits over time in the Retail FX space. Without a real edge in your trading, something that cannot be manipulated out of existence, you will never see long-term success in this industry. The good news is that finding your Trading Niche (edge) is not as difficult as it sounds, you just have to be willing to put the time, energy and effort into studying the data that the market provides.

    In other words, you have to take the Business of FX Trading, seriously enough to become an expert at YOUR niche (edge). Map your niche (codify it) and then hammer it like a nail, over and over again. Niche's are everywhere you look when you research the data, but they are not going to jump into your lap and say: "Trade Me, I'm Your New Profit Making Niche!"

    Niche's are stubborn but they can be sliced from the data, if YOU study the data for what it is worth.

    And, you wonder why the movie: 21 is so popular among so many Traders around the world. It is because somebody found THEIR "edge" - their Niche and it worked at the blackjack table. However, Trading is NOT gambling from a purely mathematical standpoint because the market contains fundamental inputs into the data. Those "fundamentals" (Economic Reports) are the drivers that establish the structure of the market data, which at first glance, appears to be very Random. Well, it is Random, however, there is also Structure embedded within the Randomness and it is revealed in the form of mathematical probabilistic output but only IF you can find it, map it (codify it) and then implement it into a Disciplined Trading Routine.

    Find it. Map it. Trade it with Discipline. Then Repeat the Process. That's the key to dealing with 500lb Gorillas in the Midst of apparent FX chaos and rigged Price Feeds.

    Of course, finding a legit Intermediary that will give you true Straight Thru Processing within a Matching ECN type Trading environment, while charging only a very small fee for service and tight spreads, is the best advantage for the Retail Trader. ;)
  6. Tresor


    What would your recommendation regarding ''a legit intermediary'' be?

    What intermediary can you recommend?