Daytrading leads to Inevitable Failure? Is Swing Trading the only Viable Path?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by heynow, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. RE: Scalability for day-trading

    Day trading can be very scalable, depending on your instrument of choice. Of course you don't day-trade penny stocks and expect that to be scalable. You pick the most liquid stock or ETFs.

    For example, trading SKF, SPY, GS, AAPL.

    You can trade 1000 shares of them or 10000 shares of them in the same minute. It won't impact the market a bit. These things... trading over 100,000 shares a minute, nobody gives a hoot to your 10k order. 10k of AAPL, $100 = 1 million dollar.

    Or you can trade your 200 shares and be happy to catch the rides.

    From making $100,000 a year to 10 million a year, you don't have to do things much differently. You just trade with more shares and scale-in and scale-out.
     
    #31     Mar 25, 2009
  2. Stosh

    Stosh

    Compliments to all posters. This has been very entertaining and thought provoking thread. Stosh
     
    #32     Mar 25, 2009
  3. :D :p :D
     
    #33     Mar 25, 2009
  4. jnbadger

    jnbadger

    I don't care what forum you're on. Trading, medical, engineering, whatever. These 4 words are intolerable.
     
    #34     Mar 26, 2009
  5. Handle123

    Handle123

    I was lucky, I started investing before PC's in 1981, so I learned long term first, I learned to chart by hand. As time went by and commissions went from $125 per 100 shares to $25 in late 1980's, I added swing trading and in the 90's - added day trading.

    By far, day trading offers the least return for risk for me. Based on a one lot in ES, five trades may reward me with ten points while risking a total of five points, wow - 2 to 1 return, but in long term, that same five points can offer me much greater return to risk, 12 to 1, and using options in long term offers a hedge against gaps. And long term, I work but a few hours a week, swing trading an hour a day, but day trading is countless hours during and after. But the "game" is so compulsive and fun, of course when I was losing my ass everyday years ago, wasn't much fun.

    If you have a sound robust method, it will not matter whether you trade on weekly data or one minute bars, markets move about the same regardless of instruments. What changes are required are "tweaks," all instruments have a personality of it's own, so rules have to be altered for the differences.

    But even if your method is robust, because of the nature of the method, swing or long term, one might not be able to financially endure the risk compared to a breakout method on one minute bars.

    As far as averaging down, tried it twice last year, lost one months profits in two days, had the shakes and mumbling to myself for days, never again. When it works, you look like a genius, when it doesn't you are sick. When my account is going down, something is not working, stop the pain.

    What I see much of thru the years, most people don't understand the old saying:
    "Cut your losses and let your profits run"
    Many put a monetary gain limit for the day and quit, while they don't have a clue as to how much to lose before they quit. Cut your losses (have a monetary daily limit) and let your profits run (on profitable days keep going till the end).
    But much is proven in your well backtested method.

     
    #35     Mar 26, 2009
  6. Brabed

    Brabed

    I'm going to answer each of your 7 points:

    1 A good trader using a good system will trade that same move, just one day at a time. This is actually more profitable, because if you're doing it right, you're compounding profits and scaling up on each trade.

    2 Addicting? Compulsive? Are you talking about gambling or trading? Bottom line, if you approach trading like gambling and not the business that it is, you're GOING to lose no matter what type of trader you are.

    3 I trade Forex, so I have no input here

    4 What kind of trader goes all in on every trade? Regardless of the leverage used, the use of carefully placed hard and mental stop losses eliminates being 'blown out'

    5 Shaking my head on this one- Diversification is for brain dead financial advisors. A good daytrader has to find his/her niche, study it, know it, breath it, live it, and then trade it.

    6 That goes without saying, that's where risk / reward ratio comes in. A good daytrader knows his/hers to the letter and also knows his trading accuracy. If these numbers jive, he/she makes money, if they don't they go broke, simple.

    7 I don't have anything to say on this one except- 'absolutely false'
     
    #36     Mar 26, 2009
  7. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    "There is freedom within, there is freedom without
    Try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
    There's a battle ahead, many battles are lost
    But you'll never see the end of the road
    While you're traveling with me

    Hey now, hey now
    Don't dream it's over..."
     
    #37     Mar 26, 2009
  8. **********
    10 Stars. :D :) :cool:
     
    #38     Mar 26, 2009
  9. Yet another "If I can't do it then nobody can" thread.
     
    #39     Mar 26, 2009
  10. jem

    jem

    Anybody who traded in an office nows the sick feel of watching the trader who eats like a bird and shits like an elephant.

    You think discipline is a myth because you have no strategy.
    I guy who has an edge or knows he can make money refuses to let positions go past his stops because he wants a shot at another setup.

    someone who is just guessing and has no systems lacks the discipline to take the loss because their mind tells this trade is the same as any other so why not hope it comes back.

    How many of your winners had to be be doubled down?

    There is a very good chance you have no edge.

    discipline is easy when you have an edge.

    In the 90s we had an office full of guys with an edge. They all had discipline and they all made money for a few years.

    Out of about 20 guys we trained only one or two guys were incompatible with making money when the edge was working well.

    Note: no emails please. That method no longer works.
     
    #40     Mar 26, 2009